The Labors of Social Ostracization
Friday, September 14, 2012 at 12:49PM IT’S ALIVE! IT’S ALIVE! IT’S ALIVE!
“Osterman’s book and TV spot, although well-intentioned, are ill-timed and done without input and NOT approved by the defense.”
So said a recent @gzlegalcase Tweet from the George Zimmerman Legal Case website in response to the release of Mark & Sondra Osterman’s book, Defending our Friend: the Most Hated Man in America. Mark and his wife are the Zimmermans’ closest friends. Mark considers George his brother. It’s much more than just a mere bromance. From Dr. Phil’s interview:
“George had pure ideals, a nobility of character that I admired. I kind of wanted to be like him,” Mark says. “When I first heard that George had shot someone else, I was extremely shocked. I know that it would have been the absolute last resort.”
I sense a rather strange relationship between Mark O’Mara and his client. I’m certain that the attorney begged his ticket to fame and fortune to refrain from going on The Sean Hannity Show to spill the latest version of his face-to-face with Trayvon Martin. I think Osterman, Zimmerman’s own personal zenmeister, coaxed his li’l grasshopper to take to the airways. Unfortunately, that particular outing did absolutely nothing to enhance his credibility, but I suspect it was God’s plan all along to show the world exactly what made this grasshopper hop. In that regard, Osterman succeeded, and so did God, I guess, because li’l grasshopper ended up winning the hearts of no one. But don’t tell the Ostermans.
That’s why I am inclined to believe that this new book revelation came with George and Shellie’s blessings. Another shot. Any opportunity li’l grasshopper has to expose his name to glaring lights and stardom, he’s all for it. Cha-cha-ching! After all, he took this shooting as his ticket to paradise, as he and his wife alluded to in a taped phone conversation during his initial incarceration at the Seminole County jail, as the money kept rolling in:
“After this is all over, you’re going to be able to just have a great life,” Shellie said.
“We will,” George replied. “I’m excited.”
“Yeah, you should be. You should be excited,” Shellie said. “I wish you were here, of course.”
“I will be,” he said.
“Isn’t it crazy how something like this just makes you put everything in perspective in life?” Shellie said. “It’s amazing how insignificant the things we stress out over are.”
“I agree,” he replied.
Imagine that. They both agreed that the shooting death of Trayvon Martin was so insignificant, it was nothing to “stress out” over. Why, even the second-degree murder charge was nothing but a farce, and this is a complete contradiction of what Osterman told Dr. Phil. Oh, how George cried and cried. What this illustrates to me is that Zimmerman looked up to Osterman as his iconic mentor; the man who would justify his need to be a top cop. While I’m never going to infer that the 28-year-old set out to shoot anyone that night, he had convinced himself that it was a right thing to do given the right circumstances. He was trained. It was pumped into him and he was primed. What better way than to set those circumstances up the right way? His way. This would make him Osterman’s equal. Yes, this was God’s plan; this was his destiny. Osterman would be proud. And in the end, he was.
While I could ostracize the air marshal, I won’t. He has no idea what kind of Frankenstein monster he helped create. He only saw his student’s docile side. Granted, Osterman was once fooled by a con man when he and another Seminole County sheriff’s deputy met Juan Diaz, who convinced them he was a second basemen for the New York Yankees. Sure, the guy took them to strip clubs flashing money, and Osterman ended up losing his job over it in 1998, but that was a long time ago. Certainly, he wouldn’t be deceived again. Would he?
I think so. But still, I won’t hold it against him. Not personally. Even in the 1931 horror movie, we could feel some compassion for Dr. Frankenstein, who didn’t set out to create evil, but in the end, he still came to the beast’s defense and lost whatever innocence was left. While I am convinced Osterman is a fool for believing Zimmerman’s alibis, we all tend to put faith in our friends; some more than others, and there remains that inherent element of naiveté. We want to think people are well-intended. How many professionals — doctors, lawyers, airline pilots and, yes, federal agents — find out their spouses have been cheating on them long, long after the fact? Let’s face it, Zimmerman is a natural born liar. While you may question Osterman on his judgment, I think I’ll be looking at something else that hit me like a brick; something he said on the Dr. Phil show. It may be meaningless, but still…
“When I first heard that George had shot someone else, I was extremely shocked.”
Someone else? Just how many people has George Zimmerman shot? That triggered my alarm. Where was Osterman’s safety when he was shooting his mouth off? Oh, that’s right, he doesn’t use one. Straight from the hip. Just like li’l grasshopper.
TO EACH THEIR OWN
Speaking of the monsters we create, it’s easy to see what can happen when people let things get out of hand. Caution is thrown into the wind and trouble flares. During the entire time I covered the Casey Anthony case, I watched people go from friendly and mild-mannered to as loony as they come, all in the name of justice for a little girl they didn’t even know. Don’t get me wrong, we all seek justice, but people vary on how intent they are to get it and how far they are willing to go to prove it is their way or the highway. Talk about standing your ground. What is often neglected is that it is up to the court system to decide, not the public, as we shockingly found out when the jury came back with their verdicts at the end of Casey’s trial. Interestingly, as adamant as people were throughout that ordeal, how quickly they moved on.
Because I had a popular blog, I was subject to a lot of scrutiny. I think there’s another blogger who is quite aware of that now. Out of the woodwork came bands of miscreants determined to shut me down. I was gay, I had AIDS, I was a convicted felon and so were my parents. I was a plant for the defense out to take down the sitting judge. One woman had her grandchildren chanting “Death to Marinade Dave!” and she proudly told others. Everyone who dared comment on my blog became targets for attack. One was supposed to be thrust into a snow bank and left to die. It was the most disgusting group of people I had ever run into in my life. Ironically, these very people prayed deeply to God that justice would come for Caylee while they hypocritically spewed hatred on people they didn’t know from Adam.
Here we are, at it again. With Zimmerman, there’s the race factor. There’s gun rights. Emotions are running quite high across a much broader spectrum. There’s politics; liberals against conservatives and Democrats against Republicans, not to mention the NRA and Second Amendment rights. There’s a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman’s head, dead or alive. We are witnessing character assassinations of the “n”th degree, with “n” being the word that most folks should have thrown away with the dirty bath water they washed their mouths out with long ago. Once again, people are getting hurt in so many God-awful ways. Ironically, one blog opens their day with The Lord’s Prayer before their brood goes on a self-righteous rampage on everyone and anyone who stands in their path. Trayvon was a drug addicted thug dealer with a history of violence. Every single word that comes out of the mouth of George Zimmerman is the Gospel truth. Every word. Yet, they really know nothing about him.
This is my opinion. What they talk about over there is their business. While I certainly disagree with their opinions, they have a right to discuss the case the way they want, although I do draw the line on spreading falsehoods and, particularly in this day and age, republishing copyrighted artwork that’s licensed to someone else, especially when it’s pirated from the website they are attacking that actually paid for the work. This is a real war, folks, and people are going to get hurt.
CLICK TO IMAGE TO ENLARGE
There are also blogs that are intent on implicating others in the crime. We saw it with Roy Kronk during the Casey case. The poor guy was run through the ringer because he found Caylee’s body. Even Leonard Padilla claimed Kronk was involved in some sort of intricate daisy chain. Kronk placed the body there, not Casey. How sad that people who do good things are sometimes burned beyond recognition by a false story that’s so fiery to touch, it blinds some to the truth. Sadly, his life will never be the same. Almost a hero, he’s also seen as a villain.
Look at one of the rumors that’s made the rounds of late. Someone was in the vehicle with George Zimmerman the night of the killing. It was Frank Taaffe. No, it was Shellie. No, it was Mark Osterman. Whoever it was, it has become Gospel to those “fact” finders who choose to buy into it. They need no proof because, so it was written, so it must be true. Call it the Lemmings Doctrine.
The problem with this sort of missive is that it can destroy a person. No doubt, Frank Taaffe has his own monsters to fight, and he certainly needs no further encouragement to go off the deep end, so why push him off the edge? Is it fun to belittle a teetering man?
The fact is, George Zimmerman acted alone. All by himself, he pulled the trigger. Why try to include others? In his book, Mark Osterman wrote that Shellie was at her father’s house at the time of the shooting. She immediately called him while he was out walking his dog in his own neighborhood. He was never at the scene prior to the police showing up. Whether you choose to believe him or not is your own prerogative, but I base my opinion not on what he wrote. Instead, I use common sense, just like what generally guided me throughout the Casey Anthony case. I take my guidance through documentation, evidence and the State. Nothing points to anyone else. Not one shred of evidence.
For example, every piece of trash in the woods where Caylee’s body rested was not attributable to her. That old worn out tire did not come off her car. There was no proof the needle in the bottle ever touched her hands. The State of Florida never used it in any of their documents, and that’s where I put my faith. Nowhere in this present case has the State mentioned an accomplice at all, and until they do, the thought of it is not plausible.
In the meantime, we are not put here on this earth to make a mockery of others, are we? Take it from one who knows; one who’s experienced it — it’s not fun being the target of incessant, never ending ridicule, abuse and lies that lead nowhere but down, especially coming from people hiding behind some really strange faith in a god that not only encourages it, but seems to relish in it. That’s not my God, and it’s as much of a mockery of God as Zimmerman telling Sean Hannity that the shooting was God’s will. How ludicrous.
Tree hugger, Tray hugger, what’s the difference if it’s nothing more than a stupid mind game where all that matters is that YOU win? Plow into everyone in your path!
Cross Posted on The Daily Kos
Dave Knechel | tagged Dr. Phil, Frankenstein, The Sean Hanninty Show | in Angela Corey, Bernie De la Rionda, Casey Anthony, Caylee Anthony, Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, Donald West, Drugs, Frank Taaffe, George Zimmerman, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Mark O'Mara, Mark Osterman, SYG, Sean Hannity, Seminole County, Shellie Zimmerman, Slimm v. Zimm, Social/Political, Sondra Osterman, Stand Your Ground, Suburban Drive, Trayvon Martin, Zimm v. Slimm, Zimmerman, gzlegalcase, marinadedave | Share Article 
LEGAL NOTICE
©David B. Knechel. All Rights Reserved. No portion of this site can be reproduced in it's entirety or in part without expressed written permission by the owner/administrator of this site in accordance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Section 512(c)(3) of the U.S. Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. §512(c)(3). The charges against defendants are mere accusations and the subjects are presumed innocent until found guilty in a court of law.
Reader Comments (117)
Well, Mr Knechel, we were both typing away to Vicky at the same time...
Order of Reassignment
18th Circuit Court Media Advisories
You know Snoopy & Dave, When I first read about this case, I hoped that there was some rational explanation about what happened that evening, but it never came. Once it became all to clear no such explanation was forthcoming, I had hoped GZ would finally come to understand his ultimate responsibility in "being forced to kill Trayvon", that he would at least express some level of remorse. So, I completely agree with Dave. He is a monster.
I really had no strong opinion of MO until I read his book. I actually had hoped his book might soften my opinion of GZ. Instead, even though MO shared a few anecdotal stories about GZ, in an effort to humanize him, I found myself more convinced that GZ was a candidate for this type of situation waiting to happen after reading the book. Yes, it seems GZ was very kind to MO's daughter, and yes he was making an effort to improve his career track, but reading the details of yet another GZ version of the shooting, and the way in which both Ostermans presented their version of the story and their relationship with the Zimmermans, I was just plain infuriated.
I really don't know their minds or hearts, but I do know that their misguided use of religion/faith in this situation further rubbed me the wrong way.
I am fully aware and prepared for the fact that GZ could very well get away with this. The thing that really gets to me is the fact that this monster has no regrets and the his friends the Ostermans don't believe he should.
BTW Dave, I know I didn't have to tell you I enjoyed your post. But I really did and find it rude of me not to let you know before I respectfully disagreed with the credit you have so kindly given to MO, even though you aren't actually a fan of his. LOL
[I think we were all waiting for a rational explanation. Whenever someone pulls a gun on a kid, you expect a solid explanation. Like I said, I was negative right from the start because this was a guy who got out of his vehicle with a loaded gun. George Zimmerman did nothing to change my mind about him. He was a loser then and he's a murderer now. No matter what anyoneone says, and he seems to only have the Ostermans as friends, he needs to be punished for this crime against humanity.
Sadly, too many people hide behind the veil of religion. In many cases, it's so misguided. I often wonder how many politicians mention God because that's what they believe the public wants to hear? There are some that probably have no faith at all, but the mere mention of God translates into thousands more votes, and they know that. Well, I'm not going to get all political, but if you take the Ostermans, they probably do have faith. Look at what Zimmerman had the nerve to say on national TV. God's will. Makes me want to say swear words.
No, I'm no fan of the Ostermans, and thank you, Vicky. I appreciate your kind words of encouragement.]
Vicky~~when I was first learning about the case and saw George Zimmerman in the courtroom, I could not believe that the man I was looking at was capable of killing anyone. Then when I learned that NBC deliberately edited the tape so Z would be portrayed as a racist, my mind turned to Z being used as a scapegoat for the media outlets to sell their stories. I was not ready to accept the fact that this soft spoken man could harm anyone. I actually felt sorry for him. (Now I realize that some of Osterman's mentoring and brainwashing paid off.) Zimmerman showed no emotion. It was almost like he was dead on the inside unable to emote. This is how I found him to be like during his apology to Trayvon's family from the witness chair and then again on the Hannity show. It is hard to reconcile if Z is a damn good showman or does he have a conscience?
Apparently Z met the Ostermans when he was vunerable and must have been like putty in Mark's hands. I can see the Ostermans being fooled. During my years moderating a forum and then blogging, I have met quite an assortment of personalities. I have been duped but felt it would do more harm than good to expose them. I wonder if the Ostermans felt Z was not really on the up and up with them but they just pacified him hoping he would change. Hmmm
Tommy's Mom, Re: "George Zimmerman never met the 12-year-old pee-wee football player who was described by his teacher as “majoring in cheerfulness”
On 2/26/12, Trayvon met the same George Zimmerman of the 2005 mugshot. George's appearance changed, but not his character and propensity for violence. I wonder if Zim's fans realize that their argument supports the prosecution's charge that George Zimmerman profiled Trayvon Martin?
[Boy-O-Boy, Xena, you hit the nail on the head with that one. Trayvon never anticipated the bullet train that was headed his way. That's an excellent point! Thank you.]
A comment from nemerinys just showed up in moderation that came in yesterday. I'm sorry about that, nemerinys, but I have no control over when those darn moderated comments decide to show up, unfortunately. There's got to be a Squarespace land of limbo somewhere on the Interwebz. Anyway, I did respond on your comment. Thank you.
This is interesting. The video is 11.49 minutes
Expert Voice Analysists Say 911 Screams are NOT From Zimmerman
[Interesting video. I have no doubt about who it was doing the screaming, and he can't offer a voice analysis, unfortunately.]
Dave, I understand the extent of Social Ostracization and how within it singles become victims, as well as masses. In reading the association with the pain in your and other friends of yours experiences with havng been treated badly it comes to mind as to how our society actually grows in Social Ostracization. Where does it originate from, is it a select gathering of those with certain belief and if one believes otherwise they are ostracized. If one will not kiss up to another, that another becomes the chia in expanding their own need through others with the same need. Does Ostracization originate from simple bullying and ridiculing of one on another, the act of "separation" you are not my friend, unless you hurt that other person, as in early childhood school ground activities. Those who have support of one in kind as in putting someone down as in a blog with a purpose being attacked by another blog with a purpose. Back and forth? Does it start with an already organized body itself or with individuals within each already organized body. Was George Zimmerman ever one, who was in some way ostracized?
A boy is dead (many others as well). Did his death come by an already larger determination to rid the community of a single child, or of all children like Trayvon. From where did Zimmerman get his strength, does he have backup somewhere that one would never suspect? Or did he as an individual strike out and afterward, by that act, gained support, therefore giving him strength?
We know from Zimmerman's own under breath uttered words that he already had a dislike for f------ punks. Would that be a very personal dislike, where he felt he could bully/kill and get away with it? Depraved mind has come in focus, that can be, but surely in adding a few more to the bullypack, they would not all be of depraved mind, rather would just have their own little personal reason to jump on and watch the other guy do it. Egging on. Nice work buddy, Nice work!
I just want to know if you think Social Ostracization arrives from the daily occurances of personal ridicules and bullying, grows strong and large enough to become solid and widespread. It can not be penetrated and because of this barrier hate grows deep inside perfectly stable personalities to actually start their own Ostracizations while actually viewing and expressing oatracization to be deteriorating and painful.
*Fight back! Does that really accomplish anything in the end? One may be taken out, but no doubt another will raise it's ugly head, life and death continue it's cycle. Someone once said, "Why do they drive nails in ME?" Another someone said "You drive nails into YOURSELF!" "One with compassion for another just doesn't hit as hard as one without." Which is deeper, one driven by "them" or one driven by "I". What would you suggest be done to stop any move that would eventually lead to Social Ostracization. Every "BIG GUY" (girl) with their weapons was once a "LITTLE GUY, " (girl) either nursing at a mother's breast, the bottle or finger/spoon fed.
*Fight back! IMO the parents of Trayvon Martin, in their deep grief, never to be forgotten, are illustrative of how "fight back" is done in the most gracious and trusting manner. They are wise and they know, that to become like the one who attacked their life would only draw them deeper into a hole they may not easily get out of, invasion of the beauty of Spirit in their hearts.
[You have quite a grasp on this, New Puppy, and you're quite perceptive. Just like school bullies, there's peer pressure. It comes in all shapes and forms, and appears in all facets of society. Look at the dog-eat-dog corporate world. That's a place I never thought of entering, although I've been there from time-to-time over the years. Each man for himself. And woman. As far as I'm concerned, it's an animal instinct, but it goes beyond that. In the animal world, they kill to survive. Humans do, too, but in many cases, it's done for more than that - it's for satisfaction. I don't think dogs get up in the morning hating other dogs for no reason at all. People do. Dogs sense danger. People hate for the simple reason that they can. How many have said, "I don't like that person," when they know absolutely nothing about the stranger? It's based on nothing more than appearance despite being reminded over and over again that you can't judge a book by its cover. Will we ever change? I would like to think so, but one thing is naturally inherent: prejudice. A dog doesn't look at other dogs and formulate anything by its color or breed. There's just something inferior about prejudice. It's not based on intellect, but it sure shows a lack of common sense and decency. Blood runs red, be the person yellow, black or white, and life is precious and priceless no matter what.
Something tells me Zimmerman was bullied and pushed around when he was young and he secretly despised tall people. Trayvon was tall. Whether race played a factor or not cannot be shown. Yes, he profiled the boy, but it was more criminal profiling than anything else. Poor Trayvon was tall, black and one of the a-holes that wasn't going to get away. At his young age, he was naive and had no idea what was coming after him - a deeply disturbed, angry man.
Thanks for your excellent thoughts on this. Much obliged!]
New Puppy
Excellent post! Thank you.
You didn't ask for my opinion but,I'm giving it anyway.
Those that bully and lead Social Ostracization of others have a inordinately or exaggerated favorable impression of themselves. They have a great need to make others feel dense or stupid. That is the main reason I detest liars,they think I'm stupid. Casey was that type,she was a unemployed High School dropout with no talent except her ability to paint and live in a make believe world. Zimmerman seems well educated but with no common sense. I do wonder what his GPA was. He seems to live in a fantasy world,where he is in fact a hero cop. Would he have been accepted on a police force. I have my doubts,especially if they did a psych evaluation.
As I said JMHO
Dave et al...
Shellie Zimmerman, wife of George Zimmerman, stands to lose her concealed weapons license according to a legal document filed by the State of Florida Division of Licensing.
According to the Division of Licensing the suspension stems from legal action, not a lack of renewal of the license. The notice of suspension was filed Sunday and gives Shellie 21 days to request a hearing to contest the action
Read more here....
Shellie Zimmerman may have concealed weapons license suspended by State
[According to the Sammis Law Firm in Tampa:
Consequences of Arrest on Concealed Weapon or Firearm License
After a person with a Florida Concealed Weapon or Firearm License is arrested or formally charged with any criminal offense, the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, Division of Licensing ("the Division") will issue a "notice of suspension" under Florida Statute Section 790.06(3). The notice of suspension will notify the concealed firearm holder of the following:
the criminal charges;
whether the license holder was arrest or formally charged, and
the license holder's rights and obligations.
Obligation to Return Your Florida Concealed Weapon or Firearm License
After receiving notice of the suspension, you must return your concealed weapon and firearm license to the division of licensing immediately. Under Florida Statute Section 790.01, if you carry a concealed firearm or weapon after receiving notice of suspension you can be charged with a criminal offense as provided by Florida Statute Section 775.084, 775.083 and 775.082.
Carrying a Concealed Firearm or Weapon with a Suspended or Revoked License
Florida Statute Section 790.10 provides for certain criminal penalties if any person carries a concealed firearm or weapon after receiving notice of suspension or revocation.
Length of Suspension of Florida Concealed Weapon Permit
The suspension of your Florida concealed weapon permit will last until you provide the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, Division of Licensing ("the Division") with proof in writing that you were acquitted of the criminal charges or that the disposition of the criminal charges does not impact your eligibility of licensure.
Administrative Complaint for Revocation of the Concealed Weapons License
If the disposition of the criminal charges does impact your eligibility for licensure under Florida Statute 790.0, then the Division of Licensing will issue an administrative complaint which may result in the revocation of your license. Additionally, the "notice of suspension" process also applies if the licensee is served with a domestic violence or repeat violence injunction or order of protection.]
Dave~~the above article stated that Shellie is due to go before Judge Nelson on Wednesday the 19th on the perjury charge.
I expect George's bond conditions is that he is not allowed to be have any guns. I wonder if he can visit people who own guns such as Osterman.
[I don't really know what the bond restrictions entail, Snoopy, so I can't answer that. I didn't see anything in his court order pertaining to guns. However, Osterman is, technically, a law enforcement officer and Zimmerman can be in the presence of police personnel. They are also armed.]
This is such a good blog. It draws in so many thought provoking comments. In fact it's such a good discussion my fingers freeze, I intend to post a comment but end up deep in thought instead.
I liked the sub-title, so true. As well as the example of headless geese, since with their heads intact geese aren't stupid!
Perhaps net woes are as simple as that, some people sit down to type with their heads screwed on straight and some just don't. Angry people get angier, mean people get meaner, the loud louder and all of it spins on a dime. Whoosh. People get hurt, it's awful and that's a fact.
As individuals we can learn so much if we want to; Basic human nature stays the same. But those who inspire us always stay the course. Steady as she goes, captains!
People want a definitive answer here, but it's possible the answer is already in front of us. A loaded gun in the hands of a man who simply shouldn't have had one. It makes no difference to me what the media reported or when, that's how low my expectations of them are. Investigative journalism on the part of the networks or what passes for newspapers is an oxymoron and always has been. Those who write their paychecks want to sell 'it'. Doesn't mean we need to buy it.
Xena's quite right, we do teach our children to 'get loud' and fight and kick and scream when a stranger attempts to accost or detain them in any way. He shot a kid, lied wildly and eventually---the law caught up with him.
[Thank you, CoffeeLover.
No doubt, there's a lot of angry people on the Internet, and since they can remain anonymous, they can be as nasty as they want. Nastier, even. None of them ever had a backbone because, in person, they were spineless.
Today, media reporting is nothing more than entertainment. Infotainment. You and Xena sure are right about teaching our children to scream. That's precisely what Trayvon was doing that night. Zimmerman was nothing more than a stranger who was stalking him. For him to say he regrets nothing says plenty about his lack of character. The man's a low-life.
I sure am glad the law caught up with him.]
I have no knowedge of guns or how one would go about getting a carry license. Doea anyone here know whether a person appling for a license would be asked about medication they take? If Zimmerman is not convicted can he still have a carry license,if he is still taking drugs that could alter his perceptions?
[There's nothing on the Florida application requesting medical information. You can view the pdf application form here:
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/FORMS/ConcealedWeaponLicenseApplicationInstructions.pdf ]
Tommy's Mom,
What a good question and a horrible thought. If Zimmerman is convicted of nothing, under Florida law, could his right to carry be restored? Ugh.
Snoopy,
Thanks for the info, I guess there will be lots to talk over between that and the FDLE pix we're expecting.
Everyone,
I do know a little nugget about being an Air Marshal I can share and I'm wondering what you might think. They get a schedule with very short notice and are rotated frequently by the FAA for security reasons. I wonder if it will be long before Osterman has regrets. After all, Phil Mcgraw is still on the air so obviously he has fans. Beyond the fact the book's a complete flop, Osterman's mug is so out there now, anyone who tuned in and recorded that show will recognize him. Even with a baseball cap, etc.
There may well be incidents, disturbances when passengers recognize him. But of course the Airlines have no authority or control, only a complaint made directly to the FAA about some disturbance or other would be effective. People feel so strongly about this case, I can't help but wonder.
He could be on a plane tomorrow, beside anyone. There's bound to be some blowback and he must be thinking about that right about now.
[I wonder if he ever wears anything to hide his identity, like a phony mustache or something. I know there are some very recognizable actors and performers who can mingle in a crowd unrecognized. I don't know if anyone would consciously look for him on a plane. If he were on a flight with me, I'd leave him alone for obvious reasons. Odds are, I wouldn't give it a passing thought until well into the flight. That's my take on it, anyway.]
Hi Dave
I haven't read all the comments here yet but I wanted to ask this question. I can't remember the exact words used because its been awhile....but during one of the jailhouse conversations between Shellie and G. didn't he ask her about the passport and then said something about wanting her to bring it up to "the lake" so he could go to "heaven"?
Regarding the conversation of S & G you posted today in your blog, I remember when I first heard that I was thinking that it was weird - it almost sounded like they were practising some visualization mantra for money. There are a multitude of of books out there teaching visualization habits in order to get what you want - kind of like that book The Secret. Its about the law of attraction meaning whatever you put out there in your mind can happen.
I really think Shellie referred to it a couple of times. Not that book but something like it. And of course these books are not saying if you kill someone here's how to make money from it - but you know how people with sick minds can twist the meanings around... One of the things they say is to be grateful for your present surroundings...And I remember thinking that her encouragement to him, and how they were going to have a great life after this....like all of this happened because they were practising to be grateful.
I'm stiil reading the comments from last blogpost and I'm almost done. Taking notes too so I can give my 2cents - but I gotta tell you - right now Manberk and Sempre Invictus are MY heroes! (apart from the usual....Snoopy, Connie, Nan, New Puppy and YOU of course!
[Hi, Mystical Pippin - I know there was a conversation about the passport, but I don't remember exactly what it was. Perhaps someone else can help out. I do see below that the comments have evolved into something else and that's a good thing. As for being grateful for this killing, nothing about the Zimmermans surprises me. They are selfish, self-centered and delusional. Obviously, the only lives that matter to them are their own. Sick, sick, sick.]
Interesting Mystical Pippin, you may have caught something that all have missed in their communication. They did indeed talk in code. I do remember about the passport, and was a little surprised because I thought it had been taken, from him at least. I am going to say that "The Lake" and "Heaven" could mean "a place" they know to be "safe", not identifying where that was because they knew they were being heard. Certainly they have been into something weird, unfamiliar to us, so I'm not negating any of your thoughts at all.
Tommy's Mom, believe me I know what others can make you feel, but you can be sure you are not stuped. Liars always have something negative about themselves to try and make others feel like that. It takes me a long time to put something down so someone else might read it and understand what is being said, this is because I am not schorlarly like other's but the way I look at it is that scholarly only means rules. Rules are important when it comes to legalities, and some other professions but in life for real one cannot even to begin to reach the high that common sense give us because it doesn't come from a professor it comes from an inner instinct which comes from the highest of all Professors.
You know Tommy's Mom, you make comments that are more worthwhile in a few sentences than I could say in a whole book.
I'm going to put this out there, right here on Dave's blog. I am not one to ever be pushed by the power of persuasion at ALL.I realize there are a couple of you tubes out there, that are for me at least, are of the best sound quality for my ears.
I've listened to them repeatedly in order to form my own opinion. Tonight I heard something, clear as a bell. On April 2nd Teeslaw put up a you tube titled 911 calls, Dated and Stamped. There is a point in the recording where Jeremy's voice goes lower and gets more urgent.
He says, "We need them to come now." A split second after that I heard the words "You little F***".
I feel sick----after all this time. That voice can only be Zimmerman's and now that I've heard it, I'll never forget it.
Astonished, amazed, heart-sick, that doesn't even begin to cover it. I needed to type this up for the sound people I don't know, whom I don't with.I've never, ever heard anyone mention this before. It ocurrs at 07:16:48 according to the way Tee stamped it.
Unfortunately I suppose this makes it official. Lock me up with the other looney tunes. Snoopy, please help me out with the link, thank you.
.
.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a58plIcrdo&feature=relmfu
CoffeeLover, I hear Zimmerman's voice but cannot make out the words. It has been my impression since first reading Jeremy's statement that he saw and heard more than he stated. It is also my impression that Zimmerman transferred his words and actions to that of Trayvon. IOWs, when he says that Trayvon told him to "shut the f---k up," it was Zimmerman saying that to Trayvon.
It has been reported by a major news source that Trayvon dialed 911 just before he was shot, and that the FBI has the recording and is examining it for Zimmerman's voice. That news source later said that they mis-stated and it was a call made by a witness.
So, don't think that you are looney tunes. The prosecution had their ducks in a row before filing the information charging Zimmerman. They aren't showing their Aces, but best believe they have them.
Since ADHD is a diagnosis Mr. Zimmerman claims to have and many think this will be his defense, I am curious why so many have ignored the other claim of PTSD? Talk about living in a fantasy world, it's more like a nightmare but it could be a dangerous one. What traumatic event caused this? Not the shooting. Here is why: To be diagnosed with PTSD, a person must have all of the following for at least 1 month:
At least one re-experiencing symptom
At least three avoidance symptoms
At least two hyperarousal symptoms
Symptoms that make it hard to go about daily life, go to school or work, be with friends, and take care of important tasks.
Mr. Zimmerman claimed to have it the very next day. I know a thing or two about ADHD and PTSD. It is no secret my Mom has both. If I could pick one for her to have it would be the ADHD. The ADHD is more about her bouncing off the walls when bored, she has to keep her brain busy. PTSD makes her want to jump out of a moving car and when entering a room you need to announce yourself. She startles very easily. If he uses any of his medical conditions as an excuse to the shooting imo it will be the one everyone has ignored. Something traumatic happened to him, what? If we discount this then do we discount the ADHD?
Nan thank you for the music lesson. I had stuff going on this weekend so I did not get a chance to watch the link until a little while ago. I appreciate you including me in the conversation. My 18th birthday is fast approaching and yes I should still be doing kid stuff but I also need to realize in a couple of months I am going to vote for the first time. If I continue being a kid I will not make a informed decision on who is the best man to run our Country. Also this is my second year of college most of my classmates are 20 or older. I guess what I am trying to say is thank you for remembering my age but also treating me like your equal.
[No way did Zimmerman have PTSD. Soldiers in war get that. Most were placed in a war setting. In his case, he placed himself there and was solely responsible for the death of another person. He did so willingly, not voluntariliy or by anyone else's authority. I agree with you, Michelle. If he claimed to have it, he is not a doctor. Nor is is airhead air marshal good buddy. Don't worry, he won't be able to diagnose himself in court.]
Coffee Lover's link to Youtube
[Thanks for fixing the link.]
Coffee Lover, A while back, I had listened and tried to bring to Dave's attention to Teeslaw's (some) and couldn't tell myself if they were ligit or not, but I'm glad you brought them up.
[I'm going to take a good hard listen to some of those 9-1-1 recordings and see what I can make out.]
Thank you, Dave, for both liberating my comment and for the compliment. I was stunned at first not to see it posted, but then I thought that maybe the long Reuter URL dumped it into the nether.
[Sometimes, links will send comments into moderation. Sometimes, it takes nothing at all. Other times, the comments never show up, in which case, the only way I find out they're missing is when someone tells me. I'm glad your comment finally showed itself, but it was a little late. Any time that happens, I hope I'm told right away. That way, I can keep a look out for it.
Thanks, nemerinys. I really hate it when this happens.]
TM stuped/typo error. sorry. :-)
Michelle: Thank you for your very astute comment.
I’m going to start by looking at the sources: It was Zimmerman’s friend, Joe Oliver, who mentioned Zimmerman’s supposed PTSD problem.
Last night on Fox (Faux) News, Zimmerman’s friend, Osterman, happened to mention that Zimmerman thought he was having a psychotic break--during the time Zimmerman stayed at his house, (immediately after he shot Trayvon.) Osterman, of course, assured him that this was not happening.
I would find that all very interesting and highly convenient, had I not seen the somewhat unusual list of medications Zimmerman was/is on.
One that really stood out to me was Temazepam which is a brand name for the drug Restoril. It appears George was either started on this, (or received a refill), on January 23, 2012. (Debate on that issue exists.)
If you Google a little, (or maybe you already know)—you will find that Restoril is associated with causing psychotic behavioral changes in some people.
All this really does look to me like they are working on a diminished capacity defense of some sort. I don’t know how that will work out for them, though.
It’s pretty obvious that he knew right from wrong. After all, he was able to aim the gun so he would not shot his own hand!
Seriously though, on my side of the border such a defense may just land him a little rest; however, I think on your side it might not be so easy for him.
(I know it’s been posted before, but if you want the link to his medical or anything—just mention it. I have it handy.)
J4T
Now, I’m probably going to end up making this too long; however, I just want to add that I’m not so sure anything ‘traumatic’, other than the shooting of Trayvon, ever happened to him. (Which I don’t believe he found traumatic.)
I think he had some serious personality disorder(s) for most of his life. Remember his criminal history, and the ‘alleged’ abuse claims. Just saying—Mother would say: If the shoe fits, wear it. :-) (That is not always as easy as it sounds.)
And, strangely enough, Georgie’s father denied him having even the ADHD.
Strange, and stranger, isn’t it?
[I think it's strange that his own father denied it, but I can see a father wanting to think his son is strong and independent; like father, like son. George strikes me as a wimpy little mommy's boy. Or was most of his life.]
New Puppy thank you for the complement you're very kind. I'm not well educated,I mostly use common sense when approaching a problem.
I never believed any of Zimmerman's lies from the start. I read where Zimmerman had holstered his gun,that was the start for me. What kind of person kills a kid and puts the weapon back in the holster? He wanted to be a cop is that police procedure?
I don't know anything about ADHD and PTSD except what Michelle,who has experience with them,has said and I trust her knowledge. I don't know if Zimmerman actually suffers from either one of these problems. If he had either problem and was taking a drug that could alter his perception of a situation,then that was the start of his lies. Zimmerman doesn't even have the ability to tell the same story twice. I cannot understand why he continues to talk or for that matter why MO wrote a book about him. Will HLS keep MO on as a Air Marshal?
I'm just an elderly lady, and I use my God given common sense when looking at a problem. As a kid we were taught if you tell the truth you don't have to worry,if you lie you must have a very,very good memory.
Xena, thanks, I wasn't aware anyone else thought they could hear Zimmerman, although what I heard wasn't long enough to be what George claimed Trayvon said. Three words, deep, growly, furious.
New Puppy, for what it's worth I don't believe Teeslaw altered anything, the call is the same but at least I could use a time to explain.
I won't be listening again--we already know how this may go in court. The tape will be played once or twice, both sides will use a parent to identify it, both sides will have an expert. I don't know whether or not any expert testimony will be allowed to break those screams into words. Audio and video enhancements are tricky, there be pretrial wrangling.
Michelle, you're obviously smart and insightful. Thanks for the time you take to share with us, but study has to come before we do. Of course, you already know that.
The medical PDF's I've read repeatedly say Restoril should be a 7 to 10 day prescription with patient re-evaluation every time before a renewal. Hmm.
Just finished reading the Florida statutes on insanity etc. Pretty high burden of proof there for the defense. They'll need to prove a pre-existing condition beyond a reasonalbe doubt, and that Zimmerman did not know right from wrong. At the moment that looks to be an impossible mountain to climb. But time will tell.
So Osterman was on Fox last nite? So much for my idea he might want to lay low for his daughter's sake or employment concerns. The playground for 10 year olds can be pretty rough. Her teachers, her classmates will all have opinions. Poor kid.
Nan I did not know his friends were saying something about PTSD. Mr. Zimmerman mentioned it in one of his police interviews, I believe. It came from his mouth so pick whether police interview or link you left of him giving interview.
Interesting about the medicine you listed. Here is a snip when I Googled PTSD with the name of the drug it's from Webmd.
Temazepam can make you feel less anxious and help you sleep. So the idea is that taking temazepam for a short time could prevent upsetting symptoms and make it less likely that you will get PTSD.
But there is no good research to prove this theory.
Can it be harmful?
The study we found didn't say whether the people who took temazepam had any side effects.
But we do know from other studies that benzodiazepines like temazepam have many side effects. Because they can make you very sleepy, you should not drive or operate machinery if you are taking them.
I am just guessing you should not operate a 9mm either, but I am not a Doctor. :/
Tommy's Mom, common sense is all we need. Worth it's weight in gold and more important than any number of Degrees to see us through!
Forgot to mention, something caused Jeremy's voice to get so urgent at what? About 10 seconds or so before the shot? I wish the FDLE had flat out asked him that during their interview.
Michelle: You said: ”I am just guessing you should not operate a 9mm either, but I am not a Doctor.” :/
LOL You are just too sensible!!
Ahh, I had forgotten that Zimmerman, himself, said he suffered from PTSD. (It must be old age. I actually had to Google to find a mention of it, and came up with an ‘Oliver’ interview.)
Here is a link to an article and video from last night's interview with Osterman. Apparently it was filmed before he did the Dr. Phil show, but just aired last night.
I have a feeling you know much more about medication than I do—so, I’m approaching this cautiously. : - >
Here is a link that does mention that psychotic behavioral changes may occur. Other links I came up with, suggested these psychotic changes occurr mostly upon withdrawal. So, I guess withdrawal is a very dangerous time; and should only be done under a doctor’s care.
Quote (27th paragraph approx.): Abnormal thinking and psychotic behavioral changes have been reported to occur in association with the use of benzodiazepines including temazepam, although rarely.
Georgie once said: ”Something is wrong with this guy. He is on drugs or something.” Do you suppose he was looking in the mirror?
Really, Mr. George is a walking pharmacy. Complete with allergies to medications. And I think they were having some problems with him.
Another thing I read somewhere—someone said that some people take Adderall to lose weight. I had never heard this, but I was wondering if you would know anything about this?
I’m reposting the following—so, if you have seen it before just ignore it. I only used WiKi to explain what the drugs were prescribed for.
This list comes from Georgie via a phone call with Shellie:
☛ As per George himself, while jailed, before 1st Bond hearing:
Zithromax 250 mg (am) (Azithromycin—an antibiotic.)
Tylenol 1000 mg (twice a day)
Celexa 20 mg (am) (To treat major depression.)
Bentyl 10 mg (once a day) (For Irritable Bowel Syndrome.)
Remeron 30 mg (pm) (Mirtazapine—for treatment of depression.)
Adderall 20 mg (8 am, 2 pm) for treatment of ADHD
The following comes from page 3 of Zimmerman’s very skimpy medical report:
☛ Active Medications:
02/27/2012 Codine 400 mg tablet
02/13/2012 Adderall 20 mg - (Brand name drug for ADHD treatment)
01/23/2012 Temazepam 30 mg - (Brand for Restoril)
01/23/2012 Omeprazole 40 mg - (Used for tummy and gas reflux.)
12/29/2011 Librax - (For stomach spasms, abdominal cramps, and anxiety related to gastric disorders.)
☛ Active Medications – Pre-Existing:
CVS Glucosamine Chondroitin (tb) – (For heathy cartilage & joint support.)
Multiple Vitamin Tablet
Omeprazole 40 mg - (Another one for tummy and gas reflux.)
Temazepam 30 mg - (See above—{Restoril}, probably refilled on 01/23/2012.)
☛ Drug Family Allergy:
Penicillins - Hives
☛ Specific Drug Allergy:
Lisdexametamine Dimesylate – Reaction: Mood Swings - (Now, this one is also used to treat ADHD disorder, but we have no records to indicate when he was put on it/taken off it.)
[Thanks for the FOX35 Osterman interview link. I wasn't aware of it.
I know I take a lot of prescription medications and they haven't changed me mentally. Not that I am aware of, anyway, but none of mine are for depression or anything mind altering.]
Dave~ ~thanks for the info on the carry concealed licenses being suspended. It all seems quite logical. Carrying a concealed license is like a driver's license, they are not a right but a privilege, abuse them, you lose them. I know our Newbie was upset that some can get a carry and conceal without a thorough investigation into the background of some of the applicants. I think they make it too easy for some people to obtain the licenses and, if I made the laws, the applicants would have to get a doctor's certificate to show if they are mentally stable or on any mood altering medications.
Zimmerman's first bond stipulations via Judge Lester's order was no drugs, alcohol or guns. I am quite certain that the bondsmen carry concealed weapons too. While sleuthing for info last evening, Zimmerman is responsible for changing the batteries in his GPS monitoring ankle bracelet.
Now if I could just find out if Shellie will be appearing in court tomorrow on the perjury charge. I expect she will get a $5K fine and community service. I cannot see her trying to beat the perjury charge... re the funds in the bank account as the state has all the evidence to prove she was lying. The state will not have any problem in proving it was willful deception on Shellie's part.
PS, I don't put much stock in these youtube videos that have been edited or altered in any way. The only audio tape I listened to several times was the unredacted 911 call made by Z to NEN and the original eye/ear witness 911 calls.
PPS, O'Mara trying to show that Zimmerman was not in a normal frame of mind, mentally, on the nite of the shooting is a bit farfetched. I don't think he will go that route whatsoever because it just wont work.
PTSD would occur after the shooting not before the crime was committed. ADHD should have nothing to do with Zimmerman stalking and shooting Trayvon, however, the meds he was taking just prior to the crime may have played a part in altering his judgement. JMO
[Unfortunately, in Florida, getting a gun permit, including a concealed carry, is about as easy as buying bottled water. What's so strange about it is that it's such a liberal law that is taken advantage of by more conservative people. I don't mean that in a bad way, but the majority of bleeding hearts are not gun owners, and it was conservative politicians that enacted the laws.
Once Zimmerman was placed under arrest and initially bonded out, there was no gun restriction because Osterman said he helped him get another one. The second time around was a different story. As a matter of fact, I hope he pees all over hisds GPS to he has to clean up his mess.
Shellie is scheduled for a docket hearing tomorrow, not the trial. She did plead not guilty and this will be to determine whether or not she's ready for trial. If convicted, she will be sentenced under the guidelines for a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 (by a term of imprisonment not exceeding 5 years,) s. 775.083 (shall not exceed $5,000,) or s. 775.084, in which case, she's never been convicted of a crime prior to this charge.
I went by the courthouse late this afternoon and there were no media trucks outside, so I don't know what to expect tomorrow. I do know that I will not be attending a docket sounding, but the trial will interest me.
Personally, I wouldn't expect O'Mara would ever change his strategy, and that is one where Trayvon attacked George. Otherwise, he would be conceding that Zimmerman reacted to something drug related. As for PTSD, it goes without saying that the "P" means POST; after the fact, and if drugs had anything to do with altering his judgment PRE, no one on the defense is going to admit to it unless it comes down to sentencing.]
Nan absolutely they take adderall for weight loss. When my Mom first started taking it we put large post it notes around the kitchen to remind her to at least eat fruit and veggies. She could go days and not feel the urge to eat. She would drink water like a fish. Do they drink water? LOL. She did not stay on it very long because of the weight loss and it made her panic attacks much worse. She is on a new medicine now. Her dosage if I remember correctly was like 20mg 1 time per day. She takes Methylphen sr10mg but she can only take it every other day.
I am curious now if they ask questions about the medication you take when getting a concealed carry permit. I would think Adderall would be out because you WILL test positive for Meth. Controlled Meth but Meth no less. My Mom always had to take prescription bottle when she went for blood work.
Snoopy I am going to quote a comment you made over the weekend.
I am beginning to wonder if the ADHD is an excuse some use to live in their fantasy worlds. They seem to take pleasure in trying to push others to the limit and think we believe their bullshit. Nuff said.
I only brought up the PTSD because that would be a better leg to stand on IF true. Which I doubt. Your comment left it wide open that MORE than 1 person with ADHD was pushing his bullshit story on others without ADHD. I apologize for bringing up something that did not interest you, I was only curious about who diagnosed it and when? What for?
Dave feel free to delete all the comments I made about the PTSD. I do believe I should stick to reading even though you encouraged me to continue to comment. It is obvious to me I am not tough enough to hang out here. It is hard enough because you all are older and wiser and it is easy for you all to make me feel STUPID!
Snoopy Obviously if Mr. Zimmerman had PTSD from the shooting it would have happened after the shooting. He claimed to have it the next day. Not possible! Symptoms have to be relevant for at least 1 month. That is why I have asked what did he have PTSD from.
Nan feel free to get my email address from Dave if you ever want to talk, I cannot do this. Good luck to all of you. Snoopy for the record I tried, it is pretty apparent it is a waste of my time. I prefer not to tie up Dave's blog with stuff that is not important to the trial.
[Michelle, these are trying times. You've got to hang tough. You see that people like you, so keep that in mind. Also, I reopened the CHAT page. If you have something you want to discuss freely there, please be my guest. I would encourage everyone else to take a peek in there every so often. One never knows...]
Michelle~~you have taken my words out of context. I was referring to George Zimmerman, not you. I think you are being overly sensitive. I come in here to discuss the Zimmerman case and the post that Dave so kindly puts up.
Michelle, You are a young lady, interested in accomplishment, and admired for it. I am older here but not in any way wiser, I can't even relate to many things in a young life today that you have knowledge and experience of. There can be span between one age and another that we sometimes leap over instead of wading through slowly. I tend to be a leaper, therefore can make many mistakes for which I later deeply regret. The worst part being, most of the time, can never go back and change effectively. ( only speaking for myself)
Mystical Pippin~~just now had a chance to read all the comments. I noticed you said that the Z's mentioned the word 'Heaven' when they spoke back and forth in those coded jail calls. From what I could decipher, it seems they were referring to the secret undisclosed location they would be going to once George was released on bond. JMO
Dave et al...
Shellie Zimmerman is scheduled to appear in court in Sanford tomorrow for a routine "docket sounding" hearing in her perjury case. That's a hearing at which attorneys for both sides will tell Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson whether they are ready for trial.
More here at....
Source
[Darn, I just answered you upstream about the docket hearing.]
Michelle, Michelle, Michelle, please reconsider and post with us when you've time. No one wants anyone to feel stupid. This is a complicated thing, we've different thoughts at different times. Now, if you are still reading please note my response to Snoopy:
Snoopy, I get it, believe me. I never had the chance to download anything myself, it was gone from the original release before this caught my attention.
I have to rely on certain sites, like AA and Bcclist, etc., for some things. Youtube for others. I don't know Teeslaw from Adam, lol. He put a time stamp on, I bookmarked his channel.
I've heard some awful enhancements, others were better but didn't help me out at all. Pictures are tricky too.
Remember how silly Henry Lee looked when he claimed there was a second set of footprints on Nicole Simpson's sidewalk and then the FBI proved it was really a slight set of imprints actually in the concrete? Lee was working from a photo.
And naturally you know how silly the defense expert looked about a shred of bologna when Jeff Ashton pulled out the trash and showed him a shred of black paper, Pitiful.
I'm simply happy I proved to myself that Ms Fulton is the parent who has it right!
There, Michelle. I've explained my POV to Snoopy-----and confirmed I do understand hers.
We're just talking, in cyberland :)
Coffee Lover~~have a double double coffee on me with a couple extra sugars. Thank you!! Without seeing the expression on the author's face as she/he is typing the comments, it is so easy for words to be taken out of context I have never been one to use those little smilies although I utilize the lol at times.
I do not mind anyone disagreeing with what I write. I appreciate constructive criticism and leave myself open to be corrected. This is all part of the learning process. You know when we do say something in error and another person corrects us, we will be more apt to remember that particular thing than all the factual facts we have presented.
Re Dr Henry Lee, he is the master in blood art, just give him a ketchup bottle. Yup, he described a whole damn rotten pizza...a little cheese and meat and and and...I am surprised he didn't say the pizza box had that misplaced fingernail in it...lol
Michelle, I am totally ignorant of PTSD, so I have been reading everyone's comments on it including yours and weighing this with that and the other. That's how I go through this board. I may be 64 but I'm not too old to learn and you have been bringing a fresh approach to this situation with a young viewpoint. We need each and every blogger to get different angles on this case.
We are strangers on here. I don't know you or Dave or Snoopy except to type to and read posts by. So it's understandable to me that we won't always agree, and yeah, sometimes I feel totally stupid or dumb in certain areas. It doesn't have anything to do with other people, but with how I processed what they said. I need to filter better some days and I do try to do that. It only goes to show that age doesn't always = smarts. There are some that just "don't get it" like the Ostermans and a lot of Zimmerman supporters. I know sometimes I see something posted that was said on another board and it takes a while to figure out it didn't come from the person who's name is at the bottom of the block but copied from another site by that person.
So stay and join us. We like you. If you don't want to stay, though, I'll respect your opinion to do so. You're old enough to decide for yourself. We'll miss your youthful input, though, if you go.
Snoopy, {mind reader} double, double it is, HOW did you know that?? LOL
Connie, I'm a stranger as well, but was made to feel welcome. Agreed. We're here to share, learn, young or old, for better or worse :)
I arrived because I saw a link somewhere and clicked it to see the photos Dave took at RATL.After reading awhile I decided this fellow seems smarrt and very nice. His photo on the blog made me smile. I took a chance, I'm glad I did.
[Thank you, CoffeeLover, and I want you to continue feeling right at home here. My door is always open and the welcome mat is right in front of it.]
Michelle, you arebexactly correct when you assert that you have been participating as the only minor on a particular blog. By in large, you have presented yourself in a relatively mature, thoughtful and insightful manner. you have offered a unique perspective to the adult population participating in the discussions. However, your insecurities and inexperience in many life situations has at times caused you to misinterpret and/or personalize comments made by others. I don't fault you at all for that. It is to be expected.
This latest misunderstanding is in my opinion a result of you lack of experience in dealing with a broad range of individuals with mental health disorders. I grew up as an individualmwith ADHD, I have two children with the disorder and I work with many children with the disorder on a daily basis. What I have learned over the years is that many individuals with ADHD use it as a convenient excuse for behaviors that should not be attributed to the disorder. And many of them have been allowed to do so by their parents/caregivers. Granted the severity of ADHD can range from mild to symptoms that qualify an individual for SED or SPMI. But most of those individuals have coexisting disorders. So, when Snoopy made her comment about George Zimmerman, I completely understood where she was coming from, since I have seen ADHD used as an excuse as opposed to an explanation on all too many occasions.
I also read unthread where Dave provided a very narrow parameter for the diagnosis of PTSD. I did not take any offense. I understood the point he was trying to make, although I was tempted to provide information on trauma informed care and the number of children I work with who have been gives the diagnosis of PTSD. None have been at war in the traditional sense, but many have survived trauma most ofnus will never know. However, any qualified mental health professional would call BS on GZ's claim of PTSD weeks following his self proclaimed "head bashing and near suffocation event". Reliving a traumatic event in one's mind for a short period of time is normal and not symptomatic of PTSD. It is when the traumatic event has caused problems in functioning over a sustained period of time, that a PTSD diagnosis can be made.
The point I am trying to make to you is that you shouldn't personalize comments made by others unless they are made directly to you, as I am doing now, and others have before me. Ergo, beginning my comment with your name. I also, specifically mentioned Dave, who might very well respond to me in kind (or not). In other words, most people will begin a comment with your name if the content is directed at you or something you have written.
Because you have personal experience with a topic, you need to reflect on the context in which a comment is made and not automatically assume the statement is directed at you. I have read a lot of comments about ADHD over the past few months and although I might have taken exception to some of them, I never took them personally. Snoopy also knows I am an individual with ADHD and as I said, I was not the least bit offended by her comment, and it never occurred to me it was directed at me. Mostly because I have know her long enough to realize that had it been, she would written it to me.
Like Connie said unthread, we welcome your perspective, so stay if you feel you have something to contribute to us older ladies and gents, but don't if it is causing you too much personal conflict.
Dave or anyone....
Does anyone know how often a person has to renew their conceal and carry license? A lot can change in a person, both physically as well as mentally, in a matter of let's say three years. Also, what are the age stipulations for obtaining a conceal and carry? Do they have to pass a gun safety test before applying for a license? I notice they recently lowered the fee for the license by around $10.
Dave, I have a comment in moderation (I forgot to lognin). it is replete with my typical typos. I now blame my IPad. If you are so inclined, feel free to correct them. :)
Snoopy, I think those licensing regulations would be on a state by state basis, but my understanding is that most don't expire. The individual is supposed to self report changes the effect their right to carry. I am fairly certain background/NCIC checked reveal C/C status, but I might be wrong.
Snoops, the age for CC is also determined by each state with those laws in place. All states require some form of gun safety classes, but the depth of information and requirements to pass the test vary from state to state as well. So basically, there is no uniform answer to your question. I do know Florida has very liberal conceal carry laws and regulations.
Vicky~~first off, thank you for explaining things to Michelle. I felt it best to not try as it has been my experience in trying to explain to complicate things further. You seem to be able to get a message across quite favorably.
Re the conceal and carry, that is damn scarey to think that a conceal and carry license may be good for a lifetime. I doubt very much if an individual would contact the licensee and say, "I have had this uncontrollable feeling that I would like to shoot everyone in a shopping mall or at a McDonalds. This all has happened after my wife ran off with the man next door and and and... " Geez, circumstances change, people change...and that once protective piece of steel in the holster can end up becoming a lethal weapon in the hands of the wrong person...
You're welcome Snoopy. I have learned as of late, that you French Canadians have a different style of communication that we Americans. No offense intended, just a different way of expressing your opinions at times..I call it the more direct, tell me what you really think approach.. I also know if you guys have something to say to someone, you will say it. LOL
I agree, it is very frightening to know that there are many psychos out there with gun permits, and no good way in place to track them. I am a strong advocate for tightening up the regulations and the expansion of record checks that are required for those who apply for permits. Unfortunately, the pro gun lobby is a lot stronger that those who lobby for more oversight.
Vicky~~okay, where the hell are you getting that French? How's that for being blunt? I guess we Canadians do not water down our drinks. You will get them straight up or go thirsty. I guess that is the 'granny' coming out in me. By saying what I think you want to hear rather than giving it to you straight up, am I being honest with you?
Here is just one example....back awhile ago, I referred to Neighborhood Watch as Neighborhood Watchmen... Conniefl came back to me 'straight up' and told me that it was not Watchmen... I responded and thanked her for pointing it out...Would you believe since then, every time I go to write NW, I think of Conniefl correcting me and you want to be sure, I write it correctly now. We learn more from our mistakes.
Snoopy, you know I love your direct approach. I added in the French just to get your goat. lOL
So tell me, are all Canadians as hard headed as you and my niece? Just kidding
You want to hear something funny, or maybe not so funny. Since GZ, every time I see a Neighborhood Watch sign, I have an overwhelming desire to put up an adjacent sign to warn off all teenagers from walking through the area after dark without adult supervision. not really, but it does make me wonder about who might be watching.