Slimm v. Zimm
Friday, April 6, 2012 at 8:34PM CAUTION: CONTAINS STRONG LANGUAGE
It’s a sad state of affairs when an innocent person’s death is ostracized to the point that it creates a huge rift; enormous enough to cut through the very fabric of race, politics and social mores. But it’s precisely what happened in the case of Trayvon Martin, the teenager whose life was cut short by a 9mm bullet fired from George Zimmerman’s gun in Sanford, Florida, a short distance away from where I live. Who was to blame?
Because of a profound difference between people of various ethnicities, religions and political affiliations, the facts don’t always come out as they should. Initially, I thought the shooting was racially motivated, for instance, but later, I didn’t feel it was any more than just some kind of profiling. That didn’t necessarily mean without due deliberation. In other words, strangers are always up to no good, right? Wrong, but George Zimmerman assumed that Trayvon Martin was as soon as he saw him. From the start of the 9-1-1 call to the Sanford Police Department, Zimmerman made it clear that he was profiling Martin:
[The bold emphasis in the quotations is mine]
Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department
Zimmerman: Hey we’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there’s a real suspicious guy, uh, [at] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something.
If that’s not profiling, I don’t know what is, but do I believe it stooped to the level of racial profiling? At first, I did, but today I don’t. Not really. What threw me off was that the Sanford police were so quick to release Zimmerman after the shooting, under the auspices of the ‘stand your ground’ law in Florida. I have serious doubts, though, about whether Martin would have been able to walk away had the shooting been the other way around. Believe me, I’ve lived around these here parts long enough to remember seeing the remnants of separate water fountains for blacks and trees that were once used for hanging.
As for Zimmerman’s incessant phone calls to police to report suspicious activity over the course of eight years, he only mentioned the person’s race when prompted. This is from the February 26 call:
Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
Since August of 2011, he called the police a total of seven times, and again, only mentioned his suspect’s race after being asked. That’s not racism, but you may wonder why I wrote his in italics. It’s because I feel strongly that Zimmerman is a loose screw with very distorted views based on his own innate paranoia — his irrational distrust of others. Does that make him crazy? No, but I would rather a guy like him live far, far away from my neighborhood because he’s the type who would end up doing precisely what he ended up doing.
Everyone who knows me understands I am not a gun enthusiast. I have never owned any kind of weapon like a gun and I never will. However, I do believe in everyone’s right to bear arms. I just don’t agree that everyone is sane enough to bear one, let alone walk around with it on their person. I do believe that most people with concealed license permits are not of the same mold as Zimmerman, and from what I’ve learned, most are at odds with a vigilante like him. He made roughly 47 phone calls (9-1-1 and non-emergency) to police since August of 2004, and 9 since August of 2011. In order to put this into a proper perspective, think about how many times you’ve called the police in since 2004. How about just since August of last year? Yup, that’s what I thought, so you would agree that it’s an exorbitant number and quite abnormal, given the circumstances of where he lived and traveled throughout his neighborhood. Sure, I’m considering his self-appointed title as captain of the Neighborhood Watch program, but for crying out loud, the guy called police when someone left their garage door open.
§
As for Sanford’s problem today, most of it stems from sweeping the incident under the proverbial rug, and for that, I don’t blame civil rights leaders for lighting the fuse of the firestorm that is now burning. Had I not known any better, I’d probably be thinking the same way a lot of people are looking at this mess:
Black boy shot dead by white dude. White dude claims self defense. Police look at scene while eating donuts and agree with dude. Case closed. Clean up the mess.
Certainly, that’s not really the case, but it’s easy to think so since this country, the south in particular, is rich with examples of this kind of thing, where the good ol’ boy system of cronyism is the way local governments have been run for generations. Because of this, I agree that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson were right in taking up this cause, although they do have a way of adding fuel to burning embers. But I also know from past experiences that without their help, there’s a very good chance that Trayvon’s story would still be tucked away and forgotten. The bottom line is, and I heard Sharpton say this with my own ears, that all they seek is the truth. Each of us should be asking for that instead of splintering into social, racial and political divides. To seek the truth is what everyone deserves, and that means justice for George Zimmerman, too.
§
So far, what do we know that is factual? There’s so much distortion out there and I’ll be the first one to openly admit I was part of it — initially, anyway. Zimmerman’s gun, for example, has no safety and a bullet enters the chamber when the clip is placed inside the grip. I was wrong about that.
There’s also a real problem over Zimmerman’s ethnicity. Is he white or Hispanic? I will stand by the initial police report. Whether Zimmerman was asked or not is not known, but Zimmerman doesn’t sound Hispanic to me. (For the record, his mother is Peruvian.)
During the 9-1-1 call on February 26, Zimmerman contradicted himself. He told the dispatcher that Martin was coming toward him and moments later he said the exact opposite. You can listen to his voice and hear the wind to show that he was running after his suspect. Again, I am emphasizing the quotations in bold:
Zimmerman: Something’s wrong with him. Yup, he’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is.
Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything ok
Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?
Dispatcher: Yeah we’ve got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.
Zimmerman: Okay. These assholes they always get away [more profiling?]. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse.
Dispatcher: So it’s on the left hand side from the clubhouse?
Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left…uh you go straight in, don’t turn, and make a left. Shit he’s running.
Dispatcher: He’s running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he’s heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance…fucking [unintelligible]
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Ok, we don’t need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Ok
Let’s try to examine the actual timeline by breaking it down:
7:04 PM: Trayvon receives phone call from his girlfriend.
7:08 PM: Trayvon’s phone call with girlfriend ends.
7:09 PM: Zimmerman spots Trayvon while sitting in his truck and calls non-emergency number. Log records show incoming call received at 7:09:34 PM.
7:10:35 PM: Zimmerman tells dispatcher Martin is coming toward him.
7:11:48 PM: Dispatcher asks which way Martin is running.
7:12 PM: Trayvon’s girlfriend calls back.
7:13 PM: Zimmerman says his truck is parked at cut-through. 15 seconds later, he loses sight of Trayvon.
7:13:41 PM: Zimmerman ends call to dispatcher.
Meanwhile, Trayvon is still on the phone with his girlfriend.
7:15 - 7:16 PM: Trayvon’s tells girlfriend he thinks he lost the guy. She then hears voices:
Trayvon: Why are you following me?
Zimmerman: What are you doing here?”
Phone cuts out at 7:16 (approximate.) Girlfriend says it sounded like the phone was dropped.
7:16:11 PM: First of seven 9-1-1 calls comes in. A high-pitched male voice is heard screaming for help.
7:16:56 PM: GUNSHOT IS HEARD.
According to the initial police report, officers Ricardo Ayala and Timothy Smith arrive on the scene at 7:17 PM, a mere seconds after the fatal shot.
There are two flaws in Zimmerman’s story, the way I see things. The timeline doesn’t add up according to his account. If Trayvon is on the phone with his girlfriend and loses the connection at 7:16, with the fatal shot coming approximately one minute later, how could Trayvon have sneaked up behind Zimmerman when the two exchanged those questions overheard on the phone? Follow me on this, please:
Trayvon: Why are you following me?
Zimmerman: What are you doing here?
Phone goes dead
Pause
GUNSHOT!
This all takes place in less than or equal to one minute - hardly enough time for Trayvon to mount a “from behind” sneak attack, as Zimmerman says he was returning to his truck, but there’s more to it than that.
The second aspect of Zimmerman’s account of a sneak attack doesn’t make sense to me, either. Study the map:
The yellow line signifies the path Trayvon took on his way back from 7-Eleven to his father’s fiancée’s house. This was the correct path. Zimmerman’s path is in orange. He could have followed Trayvon or he could have taken the other path and swung around to face him north as Trayvon headed south along the sidewalk. Either way, I don’t see how Trayvon could have caught Zimmerman off guard. This is a major issue as far as I’m concerned, and in my opinion it adds up to an alibi that doesn’t compute.
Witness points to spot where Trayvon died.
The bottom line is that I’m more concerned with what really transpired than I am about anything else. Who is black and who is white shouldn’t matter, but it does, and both extremes are expanding the rift. No doubt, it’s a terrible shame when we break down a human life and crumble it like bleu cheese over potholes marked by liberal and conservative values, Republican and Democratic doctrines, and most shocking, what a young man’s life is worth depending on where one sits. This cannot be marred by the loud marches of vengeance seekers. There can be no coerced contrition based on speculation. While we argue over justice, we can’t lose sight of the truth.
Trayvon Martin is dead. Had he been left alone that Sunday evening, which he should have been, he would have delivered a bag of Skittles to his soon-to-be step-brother and life would have continued as usual; uninterrupted. Instead, a man with a gun had to stick his nose into something that was police business, and for that reason alone, if nothing more, he should be held accountable. Without that gun, George Zimmerman would have been too afraid to chase after a fluffy little bunny rabbit and Trayvon would be spending Easter with his family. Instead, we’re left with fighting over a word: coon, cold, or punk. Sadly, the battle lines are drawn, and it’s Slimm v. Zimm. Which side are you rooting for?
Dave Knechel | tagged Ricardo Ayala, Timothy Smith | in Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, George Zimmerman, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Neighborhood Watch, Sanford Police Department, Seminole County, Slimm v. Zimm, Stand Your Ground, Trayvon Martin, Zimm v. Slimm, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (143)
Dave et al... JMO
"The two attorneys representing George Zimmerman said they are removing themselves from the case on Tuesday."
Were they ever officially representing Z?
"Craig Sonner and Hal Uhrig said they have lost contact with Zimmerman and haven't spoke to him in two days."
Wow, not eons but two whole days. That is an eternity.
"The attorneys do not know where Z is"
Then how do they know he is not in Florida?
Hal Uhrig went on to make a great opening statement in Z's defense. This was all a ploy. They stated that they were off the case yet they said that Z could contact them if he so wished. What a great piece of PR work on behalf of these two lawyers. Why didn't they just bow out graciously and go back to their offices? Uhrig put me in mind of F Lee Bailey
Porky, that isn't my claim-its the author of the article who claims it. I've never heard of a Neighborhood Watch Line but if there is such a thing its probably because of people like him calling 911 way too much for non-emergencies.
Sherry - There are phone logs from T-mobile about a call from the GF to T starting 7.12 PM and ending abruptly at 7.16 PM. It is a well documented fact. That the special prosecutor has talked to the GF simply based on the call has been reported as well.
It is quite possible that T had either a bluetooth ear piece or even a wired head set ( The GF does mention that it sounded like his headset came off ) and was holding the phone in his hand ( Z does mention something in T's hand ) or probably holstered it on his hips instead of holding it to his ears. That would explain why Z never mentions the phone at all.
You can hear the words Sanford Police Department at the beginning of this 911 call....
Zimmerman's 911 call
Thanks skalathil~ I should have explained that the bolded parts were what I found interesting and a part of the case I had not read about before. I just wanted it to be all together for the context of the bolded parts. I read the comment by one of the posters here about the headset and running with one of those on after I read that part that I posted. I just wanted to know what people were thinking about these parts of the article at least. The whole article is not pro-Zimmerman. He, too, believes that Zimmerman was out to be a big hero and let his NW Captain status go to his head.
This was posted on his The Real George Zimmerman site~
Update as of 1:30pm EST on Tuesday, April 10th
I am attempting to respond to each and everyone of my supporters personally. The support has been overwhelming in volume and strength. I thank you all and ask that you permit me the time to respond to each one of you personally. Once again thank you.
Sincerely,
George Zimmerman
The date is today's. I wonder why he is being so elusive. Has FOXNews inserted themselves in this case by offering counsel for Zimmerman?
Sherry~~ I checked out Z's website and I would not doubt that he has a lot of supporters and the money is rolling in. Earlier, didn't the NRA ( I think that is the abbreviation for the Rifle Assoc) in Texas, say that they would donate $10,000 for Z's defense?
I'm guessing it'll be the Gun Lobby who'll provide him with counsel, Sherry. They have to have something to keep bringing in donations, since none of their predictions about Obama sending tanks out to take away all the guns has exactly come true.... SIGH.
New Puppy~~it does appear that Zimmerman shows signs of paranoia so this makes me wonder if he has some pre-mental condition and this would make him vunerable when faced with a crisis. He has to feel like a caged animal if he is watching the media outlets. Just the fact that he called the prosecutor's office indicates desperation. If Z did decide to end it all, it would not prove his guilt or innocence so I would never feel guilty about stating my opinions.
It is evident he made some very bad judgements on the evening of Feb 26th. It is on record that he made several calls to 911 in the past over trivial happenings. I believe he would like to turn back the clock. I just hope he doesn't decide to stop it from ticking. JMO
I'm not sure about that, Snoopy. I can't find anything on it (I don't trust anti-NRA sites that says the organization is behind Zimmerman).
Snoopy- we both had the same info!
We currently have over 300 MILLION guns in this US of ours.
There's about 314 million PEOPLE. Until every toddler is armed NRA won't be happy....
CNN had an NRA lawyer saying they would be advocating for Zimmerman, Sherry. Mike Brooks was on too, being the Voice of Moderation, somewhat. During the day, maybe Friday? The guy was irritating as heck, flip, loud, talked over everyone else, etc. Had great hair though.
Sherry~~does this look legit?
Texas Gun group adds to the fray: offers $10,000 for Zimmerman's legal defense
Karen C ~~that is not the first time you and I have made duplicate comments. lol
Ah, that's an independent group then- the guy I saw on CNN was a top NRA lawyer. Yeah, I think they found an "issue"- Self Defense! Stand Your Ground! (OK, Stand Your Sidewalk!) I'm not worried about Zimmerman not having adequate representation, here.
Full Statement to the Medias from the SA's Office
There seems to be a concern for safety/security? One of the commentors said at the WESH site article concerning the 3 hour notice-GZ is probably not going to charge him with anything if they are concerned about safety.
Thanks, Snoopy-that one i trust.
Sorry, Karen C., but I don't watch TV anymore so I missed that CNN show. From what you have said, I would have turned the channel. I can't stand when one talks over another-FOXNews does that with alot of their shows and interviews. And i don't like to see arrogance and condescension by anyone. And I am pro 2nd Amendment in the rights of citizens to be armed-its the type of arms that bothers me but I won't get into that here.
I would imagine the opposite would be true! Let a jury decide, or he pleas. I'm thinking negligent homicide applies here, at the very least. We haven't heard any defense attorney claims about things like trigger pressure, malfunction, etc. since Zimmerman and his advocates have painted him into a corner with Self Defense only.
I hear you Sherry. Me too. I come from a formerly pro-NRA family, but I know my Dad left 'em right when George H W did- cop killer bullets and plastic undetectable guns. Not exactly a "well-regulated militia" anymore, huh?
'Night! Tomorrow should be interesting...
Dr.Drew: Jose Biaz was on tonight, not that he said so much of importance but I was surprised to hear in the conversation something about George Zimmerman having left the state, disappearing? Doesn't make sense to me with him asking for monies to defend himself. Maybe money to disappear?
However, the attorneys who dropped him said it was hard to defend him when they couldn't communicate with him. (Out of reach)
Karen C and Sherry~~I made a prediction awhile back but I am not much of a gambler so do not expect to be right. Here goes...
Zimmerman will not be charged. If he is, it will be unintentional manslaughter. His lawyers will get Z immunity as per the Stand Your Ground Laws. Case dismissed.
Nite nite Karen C...interesting for sure. We may see all hell break loose...
@Sherry, the difference between you and I is that you are seemingly obsessed ONLY with the racial component of this case at the exclusion of the details while most of the OPs here, including myself, want to make sure that we live up to the ideals of "and justice for all." And BTW, that also includes George Zimmerman. I want him to get a fair trial, assuming he's charged. A jury may decide there is reasonable doubt. That is the system we have in America.
The reason that this case is now national is because of the fact that a man shot an unarmed child and even though the lead investigator wanted to charge him for manslaughter, the local DA declined to do so, falsely citing the SYG law, which may or may not apply. Given the shifting explanations of Zimmerman's legal team (at present) they are trying to establish self defense because the facts of the case at present mean that SYG does not apply to Zimmerman.
I will not defend the previous actions of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson but it is interesting that none of those incidents happened more recently than 20 years ago. As a Jew, I was offended by the hymie town remark, but it happened in 1984. Likewise, in Sharpton's early career he was associated with grifters like C. Vernon Mason. I believe that after Sharpton was stabbed in 1991, he underwent a transformation. Judge him by his actions in the present or recent past and not by what happened more than two decades ago.
I also found it interesting to assert that Koran burning Muslim hater Terry Jones HAS a constitutional right, but you implied that neither Jackson nor Sharpton do. You are also falsely impugning ALL Muslims because of your paranoia over the non-existent threat of Sharia law. Only someone who wants to stoke fear and resentment would actually believe that our country, which has withstood a civil war and defeated the Axis in WWII and aided in the collapse of the USSR would actually fear that Muslims are going to conquer this nation. You have little faith in America and the American people. Blaming all Muslims for 911 is no different than blaming all Christians for the murders committed by Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, John Salvi, and James Kopp.
You are also wrong about the neo-Nazis patrolling Sanford. The Sanford PD, which other than lead investigator Chris Serino, stinks to high heaven for their handling of this case as well as other cases in the recent past, issued a self-serving statement that they hadn't seen any Nazis. Then again, they didn't conduct a proper investigation into the death of Trayvon Martin.
As for the New Black Panthers, they are a fringe group. They are getting wonderful PR from Fox News which is actively promoting the NBP agenda. Nobody should pay any attention to these ass-clowns. They want the attention and Fox has been actively promoting the NBP since President Obama took office. Fox also has a sordid history of race-baiting such as the headline on the Fox Nation website Obama has hip-hop bbq and so on. Yes, I think the FBI should be keeping tabs on the NBP but at present charging them will just allow them a larger audience to spread their hate speech. Isolating and marginalizing them until people stop paying attention is probably the better strategy but it won't happen as long as Fox continues to promote them.
So well stated Govt Mule. I was also going to add that everyone keep saying that all hell may break out if the decision is to not charge.. It is important now to look at WHY this might happen.
I was out in LA just before the Rodney King riots broke out will tell you that like this, the King incident only served as a catalyst for what was already brewing.
Many Blacks see the book thrown at our youth in the criminal justice system as a stark contrast to the way non Blacks are treated and I think this is the crux of the potential volatility of this issue.
I do not believe that anyone here truly believes that the police would have taken Travors word and let him go had the situation ended in reverse.
To underscore that, one of my workers had a boyfriend who recently got in trouble with the law. The attorney point blank told him , well you are white and this is your first offense so you will be ok.
But alas there are solutions to these issues and I think they lie in having civilian review boards. I lived in Minneapolis for a number of years and the review boards did wonders to improve relations between blacks and the police.
great analysis Govt mule.
GM~
Then I'm not the only one disturbed (not obsessed) by Jackson's and Sharpton's presence in this case. They have made it a race issue where George Zimmerman is concerned and I believe it should be where the PD is concerned. Also, WTH is this that the DOJ AG will look into civil rights violations in this case (rightly so) but won't arrest the NBP leader for putting a bounty on the head of an American citizen? Its the double standards that irks me. You obviously haven't read all of my comments. I do see this case as political since Sharpton and Jackson showed up. Florida is a swing state. There have been other shootings of whites on blacks in other states in the last few years but they do nothing. Not swing states, I guess
Here is an interesting article by Yid with a Lid-no mention of Sharpton's sorrow here!
When Al Sharpton Incited a Massacre at Freddy's Fashion Mart
GM~ You make false assertions about what I have said. You will be ignored from now on by me.Plus, you know nothing about how sharia is being pushed onto American citizens in the court of law.
Peruse my blog sometime...
@Sherry: I have made no false assertions about what you said. I just used your own words and prejudices against you and exposed you as the bigot and racist that you are. If you believe Shariah Law is a real threat to America, you are a paranoid and frightened person with so little faith in your own country. According to your twisted logic, Shariah is a bigger threat to the U.S. than either the Civil War, the Nazis, the USSR, or even Al Qaeda. Give me a break. That kind of paranoia and fear pandering is right up there with those FEMA Concentration Camps.
FYI~ ~ Would it not be in the best interest of all to disagree with the opinion of another contributor than to make direct personal insults towards the one who stated that opinion? Personal attacks are a no no in trying to maintain a peaceful blog.
I blame Thug Culture.
On whose part, M. Simon? Trayvon's or George's? If Trayvon, then wearing a hoodie must justify his death? I'm not really sure what you mean.
Dave, I don't think hoodies has anything to do with it. I understood the commentor to mean that the Thug Culture has brought in bad 'tudes, i.e., "I'm tough, don't eff with me!" I see this on the part of both men.
You folks who are backing Trayvon are so blind to the ever increasing dysfunctional sub-culture in America that you have been led to agree with the criminals and delinquents.
The only thing Zimmerman is guilty of is trying to protect his neighborhood from someone he thought was up to no good. This resulting in an altercation where Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman (backed by police reports). Zimmerman being assaulted and thought he was going to die shot and killed Trayvon to protect his life. So his only guilt is trying to protect his neighborhood. Plain and simple.
Agreeing with criminals and delinquents has nothing to do with it. What you are stating is that anyone with a gun is ONLY there to protect his neighborhood. That means there's no chance of that person being a cowboy, rogue or anything else. Why would you believe in something so stupid? What you are doing is giving everyone with a concealed weapons permit free reign to shoot anyone. Always right.
Your statement about Zimmerman being BACKED by police reports is comical. You're saying it as if the police were there all along, witnessing the whole thing. They were not. All they did was take down Zimmerman's account of what transpired. By your simple logic, you are saying that had he been pulled over for speeding and told the cop he wasn't, his word was right. Therefore, he was not speeding. You also state your opinion as if you were there, too. You were not. You are not open to anything other than Zimmerman's word. By default, you are calling the special prosecutor a liar.
Here's the thing: Trayvon Martin had every right to be where he was. Anything brought up about him is something that George Zimmerman COULD NOT HAVE KNOWN, and therefore is irrelevant in determining whether GZ was justified in considering TM suspicious.
TM was staying with his father and future stepmother. He was walking to the store, and walking back to his father & future stepmother's house. TM's girlfriend confirms that GZ approached TM, not the other way around.
The blinders here, JohnJohn, are yours. I could see someone like you shooting me for merely walking back to my own home in my neighborhood. For you, black = thug no matter what. I got busted for buying beer when I was 19 (I'm 44 now)....you going to call me a delinquent and a thug? Never broke a law yourself, ever? Hypocrite.
The blinders are on those who say that black lives aren't to be valued. Anyone who claims that Trayvon Martin deserved what he got is basically saying that it's ok for a CIVILIAN to follow and confront a minor... They're saying it's ok to expect blacks to submit to any Tom, Dick, and Harry who decide to confront them for whatever reason.
@J.D. Walker
Zimmerman also had ever right to be there too. Going off of the incident map, why didn't Trayvon run home if he was so close. The injuries on both Zimmerman and Trayvon point to Trayvon being the aggressor and Zimmerman shooting him at close range. You have to be emotionally driven to twist those evidence to some twisted outcome of Zimmerman being the aggressor.
When all evidence are presented, it boils down to "Why didn't Trayvon run into his house? Why didn't Trayvon call 911?" Those are the questions that should be asked and the evidence point to why he didn't run. He went to confront Zimmerman and the rest is story.
Why would Trayvon call 911? He wasn't a Neighborhood Watch person. This is purely baiting by twisting words to suit one side of the story; the only side alive to do so. I'm not going to say I'm 100% convinced of anything. What qualifies you? And don't use vague terms like "common sense."
"Why would Trayvon call 911? He wasn't a Neighborhood Watch person. This is purely baiting by twisting words to suit one side of the story; the only side alive to do so. I'm not going to say I'm 100% convinced of anything. What qualifies you? And don't use vague terms like "common sense."
Its common sense and you don't need to be a neighborhood watch person to call 911. Anyone can call 911, its not a privilege for select few. You act like parents and schools don't teach kids to call 911 when they feel their life is in danger. So the question that will arises in court is "Would a normal person who felt their life was threaten call 911? Yes or no?" If you answer yes then it leads you down the road that proves the point that Trayvon was the aggressor who confronted and assaulted Zimmerman. If you answered no then the evidence that was collected and reported do not match. Plain and simple.
You tell me what 17-year-old doesn't feel invincible. Trayvon told his girlfriend about a weirdo who was following him. What 17-year-old thinks that everyone has a concealed weapon? Hell, I'm almost 60 and I don't think like that. You are putting the entire onus on the decedent and that's just wrong. Why, out of nowhere, are you an extremist, advocating for Zimmerman? How do you know what happened that night?
You want the truth??? Western thinking often tends to dichotimize phenomena into either/or categories, whereas, a both/and perspective is the best avenue to take. In other words, somewhere in between lies the truth. You do not own it.
Good point about calling 911! Defense will probably bring that up.~
I'm sorry to all who get called a racist for stating their opinions pro-Zimmerman here. I, for one, don't believe it for a second. You've got moxie for not walking on eggshells by speaking and being pc for fear of offending anyone. That's not racism, its realism. Just because one points out in opinion that Trayvon was no innocent in this tragedy that took his life does not mean Thug=Black.
However, let's remember that alot of commentors, myself included, are sympathetic to Trayvon's parents. They lost an irreplaceable treasure, and we have no idea now if Trayvon would have made a positive impact on society. Kids are kids and no one can know if they will not grow out of their "badness." Most do, as we should know that by common sense. Looking at Trayvon's pictures, he seemed much happier holding his little brother than showing off his golden grille. He could have become a wonderful family man (like his dad). It should always hurt us a bit when children are killed. If we are sensitive then let it be towards Trayvon's mom and dad, family and friends.
It is totally wrong to call people racist for supporting Zimmerman. That would be like calling people racist for supporting Mitt Romney. There's no logic or basis whatsoever.
Apparently, those gold chops or whatever they are, are ornaments that come right out of the mouth.
@Dave
You tell me what 17-year-old doesn't feel invincible. Trayvon told his girlfriend about a weirdo who was following him. What 17-year-old thinks that everyone has a concealed weapon? Hell, I'm almost 60 and I don't think like that. You are putting the entire onus on the decedent and that's just wrong. Why, out of nowhere, are you an extremist, advocating for Zimmerman? How do you know what happened that night?
I don't want to speak down on your life experience but I'll tell you that in your life time things were different then where they are today. Simple, you do not understand the new sub-culture that lives and thrives in America with this new thug/gangster life. You and the vast majority of America simple do not understand or care about that sub-culture and how it is affecting our communities and kids. I know for a fact that Trayvon thought he was invisible and went back to confront and assault Zimmerman. Why? Simple for the fact that Zimmerman was assaulted which were documented in the police report. Not to mention, Trayvon's online monicker was “No_Limit_Nigga”. Do you even know what that monicker suggest? I'm pretty positive you wouldn't understand what his monicker is suggesting. So if he was like any other person, would he had ran and called 911? If not, why then? That's the question you Trayvon supporters are not asking yourself. Instead, you Trayvon supporters keep saying that Zimmerman was stalking him and stalking him so Trayvon just assaulted him? So its okay to just randomly hit someone because you felt threaten?
@Dave
You want the truth??? Western thinking often tends to dichotimize phenomena into either/or categories, whereas, a both/and perspective is the best avenue to take. In other words, somewhere in between lies the truth. You do not own it.
I'm basing my reasoning on the leaked evidence and what we know about both person. Unlike a lot of Trayvon supporters who use their emotions to make their judgment on this incident because by US law he was still a child. So automatically, the response will be "He was a child who was innocent and didn't deserve to die. Zimmerman was the older mature person, he shouldn't have done anything because now we have a dead child." That's plain and simple the reasoning of a vast majority of Trayvon supporters outside of the race baiting crowd.
JohnJohn - I think that when a person says "I know for a fact" and wasn't there, they know nothing more than what they have convinced themselves of. They, quite simply, live in a misguided world where they know everything about everything and no one else comes close.
@Dave
Its a fact that you choose not to believe that point of view because you don't want to believe that is what happened. If you did then Zimmerman self defense response will shatter your belief of the situation. Simple as that.
it's a fact? Really? By what standards? what makes it a fact that Dave chose not to believe a point of view because he didn't WANT to believe it? hmm? how is it that you can climb into the minds of others and state their thoughts and desires as facts?
Its extremely irrational to think you're capable of doing these things and I suggest you get some counseling.
Trayvon's online monicker was “No_Limit_Nigga”.
It has been said that Zimmerman had a myspace that referenced datniggytb, Is that the same as Trayvon's or is it different?
Laurali- TM's online info was hacked posthumously. A Klux-er bragged that he was the one who did it, I believe at StormFront (neo-nazis). Not only was false info deseminated, but fraudulent pics of Trayvon were put on too.