Slimm v. Zimm
Friday, April 6, 2012 at 8:34PM CAUTION: CONTAINS STRONG LANGUAGE
It’s a sad state of affairs when an innocent person’s death is ostracized to the point that it creates a huge rift; enormous enough to cut through the very fabric of race, politics and social mores. But it’s precisely what happened in the case of Trayvon Martin, the teenager whose life was cut short by a 9mm bullet fired from George Zimmerman’s gun in Sanford, Florida, a short distance away from where I live. Who was to blame?
Because of a profound difference between people of various ethnicities, religions and political affiliations, the facts don’t always come out as they should. Initially, I thought the shooting was racially motivated, for instance, but later, I didn’t feel it was any more than just some kind of profiling. That didn’t necessarily mean without due deliberation. In other words, strangers are always up to no good, right? Wrong, but George Zimmerman assumed that Trayvon Martin was as soon as he saw him. From the start of the 9-1-1 call to the Sanford Police Department, Zimmerman made it clear that he was profiling Martin:
[The bold emphasis in the quotations is mine]
Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department
Zimmerman: Hey we’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there’s a real suspicious guy, uh, [at] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something.
If that’s not profiling, I don’t know what is, but do I believe it stooped to the level of racial profiling? At first, I did, but today I don’t. Not really. What threw me off was that the Sanford police were so quick to release Zimmerman after the shooting, under the auspices of the ‘stand your ground’ law in Florida. I have serious doubts, though, about whether Martin would have been able to walk away had the shooting been the other way around. Believe me, I’ve lived around these here parts long enough to remember seeing the remnants of separate water fountains for blacks and trees that were once used for hanging.
As for Zimmerman’s incessant phone calls to police to report suspicious activity over the course of eight years, he only mentioned the person’s race when prompted. This is from the February 26 call:
Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
Since August of 2011, he called the police a total of seven times, and again, only mentioned his suspect’s race after being asked. That’s not racism, but you may wonder why I wrote his in italics. It’s because I feel strongly that Zimmerman is a loose screw with very distorted views based on his own innate paranoia — his irrational distrust of others. Does that make him crazy? No, but I would rather a guy like him live far, far away from my neighborhood because he’s the type who would end up doing precisely what he ended up doing.
Everyone who knows me understands I am not a gun enthusiast. I have never owned any kind of weapon like a gun and I never will. However, I do believe in everyone’s right to bear arms. I just don’t agree that everyone is sane enough to bear one, let alone walk around with it on their person. I do believe that most people with concealed license permits are not of the same mold as Zimmerman, and from what I’ve learned, most are at odds with a vigilante like him. He made roughly 47 phone calls (9-1-1 and non-emergency) to police since August of 2004, and 9 since August of 2011. In order to put this into a proper perspective, think about how many times you’ve called the police in since 2004. How about just since August of last year? Yup, that’s what I thought, so you would agree that it’s an exorbitant number and quite abnormal, given the circumstances of where he lived and traveled throughout his neighborhood. Sure, I’m considering his self-appointed title as captain of the Neighborhood Watch program, but for crying out loud, the guy called police when someone left their garage door open.
§
As for Sanford’s problem today, most of it stems from sweeping the incident under the proverbial rug, and for that, I don’t blame civil rights leaders for lighting the fuse of the firestorm that is now burning. Had I not known any better, I’d probably be thinking the same way a lot of people are looking at this mess:
Black boy shot dead by white dude. White dude claims self defense. Police look at scene while eating donuts and agree with dude. Case closed. Clean up the mess.
Certainly, that’s not really the case, but it’s easy to think so since this country, the south in particular, is rich with examples of this kind of thing, where the good ol’ boy system of cronyism is the way local governments have been run for generations. Because of this, I agree that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson were right in taking up this cause, although they do have a way of adding fuel to burning embers. But I also know from past experiences that without their help, there’s a very good chance that Trayvon’s story would still be tucked away and forgotten. The bottom line is, and I heard Sharpton say this with my own ears, that all they seek is the truth. Each of us should be asking for that instead of splintering into social, racial and political divides. To seek the truth is what everyone deserves, and that means justice for George Zimmerman, too.
§
So far, what do we know that is factual? There’s so much distortion out there and I’ll be the first one to openly admit I was part of it — initially, anyway. Zimmerman’s gun, for example, has no safety and a bullet enters the chamber when the clip is placed inside the grip. I was wrong about that.
There’s also a real problem over Zimmerman’s ethnicity. Is he white or Hispanic? I will stand by the initial police report. Whether Zimmerman was asked or not is not known, but Zimmerman doesn’t sound Hispanic to me. (For the record, his mother is Peruvian.)
During the 9-1-1 call on February 26, Zimmerman contradicted himself. He told the dispatcher that Martin was coming toward him and moments later he said the exact opposite. You can listen to his voice and hear the wind to show that he was running after his suspect. Again, I am emphasizing the quotations in bold:
Zimmerman: Something’s wrong with him. Yup, he’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is.
Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything ok
Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?
Dispatcher: Yeah we’ve got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.
Zimmerman: Okay. These assholes they always get away [more profiling?]. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse.
Dispatcher: So it’s on the left hand side from the clubhouse?
Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left…uh you go straight in, don’t turn, and make a left. Shit he’s running.
Dispatcher: He’s running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he’s heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance…fucking [unintelligible]
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Ok, we don’t need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Ok
Let’s try to examine the actual timeline by breaking it down:
7:04 PM: Trayvon receives phone call from his girlfriend.
7:08 PM: Trayvon’s phone call with girlfriend ends.
7:09 PM: Zimmerman spots Trayvon while sitting in his truck and calls non-emergency number. Log records show incoming call received at 7:09:34 PM.
7:10:35 PM: Zimmerman tells dispatcher Martin is coming toward him.
7:11:48 PM: Dispatcher asks which way Martin is running.
7:12 PM: Trayvon’s girlfriend calls back.
7:13 PM: Zimmerman says his truck is parked at cut-through. 15 seconds later, he loses sight of Trayvon.
7:13:41 PM: Zimmerman ends call to dispatcher.
Meanwhile, Trayvon is still on the phone with his girlfriend.
7:15 - 7:16 PM: Trayvon’s tells girlfriend he thinks he lost the guy. She then hears voices:
Trayvon: Why are you following me?
Zimmerman: What are you doing here?”
Phone cuts out at 7:16 (approximate.) Girlfriend says it sounded like the phone was dropped.
7:16:11 PM: First of seven 9-1-1 calls comes in. A high-pitched male voice is heard screaming for help.
7:16:56 PM: GUNSHOT IS HEARD.
According to the initial police report, officers Ricardo Ayala and Timothy Smith arrive on the scene at 7:17 PM, a mere seconds after the fatal shot.
There are two flaws in Zimmerman’s story, the way I see things. The timeline doesn’t add up according to his account. If Trayvon is on the phone with his girlfriend and loses the connection at 7:16, with the fatal shot coming approximately one minute later, how could Trayvon have sneaked up behind Zimmerman when the two exchanged those questions overheard on the phone? Follow me on this, please:
Trayvon: Why are you following me?
Zimmerman: What are you doing here?
Phone goes dead
Pause
GUNSHOT!
This all takes place in less than or equal to one minute - hardly enough time for Trayvon to mount a “from behind” sneak attack, as Zimmerman says he was returning to his truck, but there’s more to it than that.
The second aspect of Zimmerman’s account of a sneak attack doesn’t make sense to me, either. Study the map:
The yellow line signifies the path Trayvon took on his way back from 7-Eleven to his father’s fiancée’s house. This was the correct path. Zimmerman’s path is in orange. He could have followed Trayvon or he could have taken the other path and swung around to face him north as Trayvon headed south along the sidewalk. Either way, I don’t see how Trayvon could have caught Zimmerman off guard. This is a major issue as far as I’m concerned, and in my opinion it adds up to an alibi that doesn’t compute.
Witness points to spot where Trayvon died.
The bottom line is that I’m more concerned with what really transpired than I am about anything else. Who is black and who is white shouldn’t matter, but it does, and both extremes are expanding the rift. No doubt, it’s a terrible shame when we break down a human life and crumble it like bleu cheese over potholes marked by liberal and conservative values, Republican and Democratic doctrines, and most shocking, what a young man’s life is worth depending on where one sits. This cannot be marred by the loud marches of vengeance seekers. There can be no coerced contrition based on speculation. While we argue over justice, we can’t lose sight of the truth.
Trayvon Martin is dead. Had he been left alone that Sunday evening, which he should have been, he would have delivered a bag of Skittles to his soon-to-be step-brother and life would have continued as usual; uninterrupted. Instead, a man with a gun had to stick his nose into something that was police business, and for that reason alone, if nothing more, he should be held accountable. Without that gun, George Zimmerman would have been too afraid to chase after a fluffy little bunny rabbit and Trayvon would be spending Easter with his family. Instead, we’re left with fighting over a word: coon, cold, or punk. Sadly, the battle lines are drawn, and it’s Slimm v. Zimm. Which side are you rooting for?
Dave Knechel | tagged Ricardo Ayala, Timothy Smith | in Dave Knechel, David B. Knechel, David Knechel, George Zimmerman, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave Knechel, Neighborhood Watch, Sanford Police Department, Seminole County, Slimm v. Zimm, Stand Your Ground, Trayvon Martin, Zimm v. Slimm, marinadedave | Share Article 
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Reader Comments (143)
Rev Al Sharpton speaks about grand jury-Video
Trayvon Shooting Facts Vs. Left-Wing Racism Storyline
Happy Easter! Happy Passover! I've been relaxing with my family today. And doing laundry, of course. I hope everyone has had a great day.
You make good sense, Carrie. You explain things quite well and precisely. It sure is a good argument for defense. Thanks for sharing your insights.
Sherry~~ I agree that Carrie has really put a lot of time and effort into figuring out the events of what took place that nite. It all sounds quite logical.
Hey Dave -- Thanks for supplying on-the-scene info. You are the only one I see suggesting that GZ might have cut between the housing blocks and appeared in front of TM (relative to the direction TM was walking, i.e., towards his home). I believe that this route is consistent with both what the gf reported, and with what the 911 tape implies. Two points:
1) I read somewhere that there was a shortcut from S Oregon Ave to Retreat View Circle, so that coming back from the 7-Eleven he would not have had to use the front gate. The shortcut is in the upper left-hand corner of your map (actually in that portion of the map that isn't shown, in the corner of the complex). Thus, assuming GZ was driving towards the main gate from his house, there would be a much longer stretch of road for him to tail TM, because TM would be on Retreat View Circle well before the clubhouse. I can see TM pretty much walking along, and GM coming opposite him for a bit, and TM veering over to see who was in the car (GM saying "He's coming to check me out") and then going under the clubhouse awning. Assuming TM was on Retreat View Circle from the corner, he could do both of these thing while basically walking in one direction (home). I can then see him scooting up the sidewalk and thinking he has lost the guy in the car.
2) IMO, the racial element of GZ's profiling is not dependent on his announcing without being asked that the "suspicious character" is black, but is found in the fact that his suspicions are aroused almost exclusively by black people in the first place. I.e., a review of his 46+1 calls shows that in fact most of the suspicious people are in fact black. I think there is like one time when the operator asks, and he says "white." For the record, I don't believe for a moment that he didn't know TM was black before he called 911. Everything he says to 911 is practiced (the "break-ins in the neighborhood " line he uses in other calls), guarded (he doesn't want to give his address in other 911 calls, either), and wildly slanted (to make TM sound suspicious). He is well-versed in making himself appear innocent and making his target appear guilty. Two sides of an ugly coin, IMO.
[My pleasure, portia.
I am unaware of a cut-through, but there may well be one. Whether Trayvon took it or not is another guess. One of the problems I really do see, especially if George is charged with a crime, is the testimony of his and Trayvon's girlfriend. He says Trayvon ran. She says he refused her suggestion to run and only agreed to walk faster. I suggest that when George was in his truck facing the direction he eventually parked in, east, he could see Trayvon until he turned south along the sidewalk (between buildings) where he was eventually shot. Of course, Trayvon would have disappeared from George's view and it may be at that point that Trayvon picked up speed, appearing to George that he was running. George would then assume that Trayvon was headed toward the southeast entrance when he decided to cut him off at the pass. That's when the two exchanged words and the fight ensued.
Let's just say that Trayvon did get the upper hand. No way George, Mr. Tough Neighborhood Watch Captain, would ever fess up that Trayvon was the tougher of the two, so he would have to make up the story that he was cold-cocked while innocently returning to his truck. The reason why I don't buy into his story is quite simple and it has nothing to do with sympathy for anyone. Trayvon's girlfriend said that the two exchanged words and then the phone went dead. This confrontation more then suggests that the onset of the fight was precisely at that moment, and it does not correspond with George's story.
In a situation of this nature, there's no way a guy like George is ever going to be honest. As you have proffered, it appeared that George had rehearsed his police calls and used the same M.O. time and time again. You are also correct that most of his suspects were black and that could lead one to believe he seemed to be racially motivated, but in the end, racism will be extremely difficult to prove if the WORD he used cannot be deciphered. Interestingly, too, is that he was well versed in the stand your ground law or he wouldn't have invoked it so quickly.
Where this will end is anyone's guess, but you've given this a lot of thought and effort and it sure is appreciated. By the way, you might find it comical (sadly) that he called the police on April 22, 2011 at 7:09 pm (same time!) to report suspicious activity in the neighborhood. In this particular case, his supect was a juvenile black male (of course!) approximately 7-9 years old. 4' tall, skinny, with short black hair. Last seen wearing a blue t-shirt and blue shorts. Seven to nine years old??? CALL OUT THE SWAT TEAM AND THE NATIONAL GUARD!!!
Thanks, Portia. - Dave]
A Grand Jury in Florida
In Florida, a grand jury must consist of between 15 and 21 people. Grand jurors are normally appointed for five to six months of intermittent service. In order for the grand jury to indict Zimmerman, 12 jurors must concur to do so. The standard by which the grand jury is to decide whether the prosecution has presented sufficient evidence to indict the accused, is by a determination of whether there is probable cause that a crime has been committed, and that Zimmerman committed the crime. This standard is in contrast to the trial jury's strict standard of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. In essence, the grand jury initiates a criminal prosecution, whereas, a trial jury, very often, concludes a criminal prosecution by delivering a verdict. The grand jury's decision will come when they have thoroughly reviewed the evidence, conducted their own investigation into the facts and voted. This process can take a day, a week or longer. Consequently, the fate of George Zimmerman will most probably not be determined on April 10. Whether or not an indictment is returned, the grand jury may issue reports recording their findings and insight to their decision.
The grand jury proceeding is the prosecutor's tool because, essentially, she is the only official present. The presiding judge rarely participates and only does so to resolve legal issues which may arise.The accused, in this case, Zimmerman, is not permitted to present evidence in his defense or cross-examine witnesses. If Zimmerman is subpoenaed to testify, his testimony cannot be used against him at trial. The one-sided nature of the grand jury process gave rise to the New York State chief judge Sol Wachtler's famous quote, "you can indict a ham sandwich." The prosecutor, Corey, will present her case to the grand jury by questioning the witnesses she has subpoenaed and presenting other evidence relevant to the alleged offense. The grand jurors may also question witnesses; request additional evidence, or even ask that more witnesses be brought before them
Source
[If there is a grand jury called, I hope it's open because I'd want to attend it. Thanks for the info, Snoopy.]
Aww thanks guys! I fear I have difficulties trying to portray my thoughts in written word at times. So I apologize if I repeated myself too much. Anyway, thanks for the feedback. My husband and I have had lengthy discussions about this case and our differing opinions have lead me to really analyze the limited information we have (probably a little too much).
[I think there's going to be a lot of disagreement between family members before this is over, Carrie.]
[By the way, if any of you would like to comment without going into moderation, e-mail me a 1) login name; 2) a screen name; and 3) a password. I will then set you up with a free account. It saves a lot of aggravation from having to wait for me to approve what you write. Look toward the bottom of the left sidebar and you'll see a "Contact Me!" form.
I am reading a lot of logic. much serious thought, but WHY, what did Trayvon Martin do to give Zimmerman cause to be suspicious of him in the first place. Can Zimmerman explain why!! WHAT Trayvon Martin did, to start the scene, what did he do that Zimmerman felt it was necessary to follow (stalk) him every step he took. Did Zimmerman see him doing anything at all that justified his believing Trayvon was up to no good. Does this mean that anyone who steps out of their house, on a rainy night, to go to to a store to buy sometihing is automatically a suspicious person. It is already so our children can not even play in their own yard for fear of their being stolen right under our noses. Now adults can not have reason to be outside without their being suspected of something criminal. When I can hear and know it is a fact that Zimmerman ever called out to Trayvon that he was Neighborhood Watch and only making sure everything is ok around the housing area then I will say, ok Trayvon should have stated, "Hey, Great, I'm just going out to get my little brother some skittles and am just talking to my girl. Thanks for watching out for us" Zimmerman did not do that, not at all, he followed, followed some more, indicating that actually HE was the one up to no good. Tell me why Trayvon did not have reason, by the way Zimmerman was conducting his "job", to feel he was being followed by someone who was going to harm him, after all Trayvon, never said he was running, even though the girl friend suggested he should. Zimmerman said all that was to be said. We can speculate all in favor of Zimmerman, but the other side of the truth is dead, and for however this turns out, if Zimmerman never spends a day in jail, is legally found innocent. His behavior brought about the most unfortunate death, not the behavior of the victim, who, if they were fighting, probably believed he was fighting for his life. Tell me that Zimmerman announced what HE was doing out there, did he have his gun OUT and Trayvon saw that and felt he had to fight for his life??????? I am not FOR either side, no matter how I see it now, tell me some of the facts I question here and believe me I am quite bendable. At the moment I do not go along with pointing at Trayvon with the idea "He brought it on himself"!! Too bad how these things happen. Oh yes, as far as a perfectly clean record, prior? Everyone starts somewhere. Thanks for those of you who enlightened me that Zimmerman did have a permit for a gun. In what capacity? I have a permit for a gun also, not to carry around in case someone looks suspicious to me, that I can pull it out and have the upperhand. If I did, without cause, then the other party has a right to protect themself from me in anyway they can. Bash my head against a lamp post, a building, whatever. After all, I would be the one INSTILLING FEAR, based on MY suspicion?????
[Nothing, New Puppy. Trayvon was doing nothing to make him look suspicious. Most certainly, he DID NOT act like he was on drugs or anything. Unfortunately, to a guy like George Zimmerman - a guy with a license to kill - everyone is suspicious and up to no good, especially if you're young and black. Sadly, this has turned into a racial fight between the masses, but to me it's more about a guy waiting to explode. He should have showed reserve and calm because of the fact that he had a loaded gun on him. Instead, it empowered him. Why didn't he have a taser? Because a gun made him 10 feet tall. Imagine that... 10 feet tall with a 1 inch brain.]
New Puppy,
In Florida one doesn't need a permit to own a gun, but one does need a permit to carry a gun on his person when off his own property. Concealed carry is allowed if one has met the state's qualifications to obtain the carry permit. A concealed weapon must by law remain concealed, and the carrier must not disclose that he's carrying.
Zimmerman has a concealed carry permit.
-----
I concur with others here who say Sharpton is anti-Semitic (there's some evidence he's homophobic too). Given his past remarks and actions, he should not be seen in polite company, much less given a tv show. Shame on MSNBC for that, and shame on Fox for having him on constantly as a guest before he went to MSNBC.
Carrie "Many of you say that Zimmerman shouldn’t have gotten out of the truck in the first place, but the police are very clear on reporting suspicious activity. Zimmerman knew the cops were about to show up and getting out of the car to see where a suspicious person might have run or hid is not out of the ordinary and this is not the same as “stalking” or “hunting someone down”.
Why is Martin labeled a "Suspicious person?" He was just walking back from the store. Z was "following" Or I call it "Stalking" him. Martin was walking. And if I saw someone following me, I be acting a bit strange myself. I'd be scared $hi* less! Martin's girlfriend told him to run. Martin said he'd walk fast, but he wasn't going to run. He shouldn't have had to do any of that. I don't believe Martin attacked him. Didn't the Skittles stay in one hand? If he was attacking Z, he'd have nothing in his hands and why was his HANDS under his body?
Regarding the question of Zimmerman's ethnicity, when he registered to vote, he registered as a Democrat and a Hispanic.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/320318/20120327/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-democrat-hispanic-shooting.htm
BTW, Sharpton promised to "occupy" Sanford over Easter, but didn't show up. I wonder why?
[Interesting, Juliesa...]
SANFORD, Fla. — If Trayvon Martin’s family sues over his death, they might not target George Zimmerman but instead the homeowners association of the neighborhood where the shooting happened and Zimmerman lived.
That’s because if Zimmerman’s claim that he shot the unarmed 17-year-old in self-defense is upheld by prosecutors, a judge or a jury, Florida’s so-called stand your ground law would protect him from a lawsuit. But his clearance or acquittal wouldn’t stop Martin’s parents from suing The Retreat at Twin Lakes homeowners association — and its insurance policies and assets would make it a much more lucrative target than Zimmerman, even if he is eventually convicted of a crime.
Plus, lawyers say, Exhibit A would be a newsletter sent by the association to residents in February, the same month as the shooting. It said Zimmerman was the go-to person for residents who had been the victims of a crime.
Under the heading “Neighborhood Watch,” the newsletter’s message recommended that residents first call police and then “please contact our Captain, George Zimmerman ... so he can be aware and help address the issue with other residents.”
That seeming endorsement of Zimmerman exposes the 7-year-old association to possible legal action by Martin’s parents, homeowners association attorneys said.
“It’s almost like if you give your son the keys to a brand new Corvette when he turns 16” and he gets in an accident, said Roberto Blanch, a South Florida attorney who specializes in homeowners associations. “You may be seen as enabling the occurrence or the loss.”
Read more here...
Homeowner association could be sued in Trayvon Martin case
(Dave~~if the newsletter was authentic, then Zimmerman was considered the Captain of the Neighborhood Watch by the Home Owners Assoc. )
[It may very well come down to that, Snoopy, and I'll bet you the farm that Zimmerman is stripped of his self-appointed title of captain. In one of those homeowner meetings, it's easy for a guy like him to be given the title. "Whatever you want to call yourself, George, you're our man."
After all, given the recent event, I'm sure he was the most enthusiastic about that position. He probably figured it would work to his advantage later on, when working his way up to being a real police officer. Too late, George. You're never going to fulfill that one.]
I understand it will not go to grand jury, anyone know this to be true?
[So the Orlando Sentinel is reporting, New Puppy. Thanks for the heads up!]
Trayvon Martin: No grand jury in case
Dave and New Puppy~~since this is not going before the grand jury, I predict that Zimmerman will be charged within the next couple of weeks.
Dave~ ~ I have never heard tell of an open grand jury. We are not even privy to know the names of the jurors who sit in on the cases. Is this something new or am I behind the times?
[I don't know, Snoopy, but it's not important now. There will be no grand jury. Since she was assigned, Angela Corey, special prosecutor in the case, said she she may not need one.]
The announcement means the decision on charges now rests solely with Corey, who had a reputation for not presenting cases before grand juries if it wasn't required. Under Florida law, only first-degree murder cases require the use of grand juries
Read more at source...
Trayvon Martin's death won't be taken to grand jury
(Dave~~if Zimmerman is charged, it will no doubt be for second degree, manslaughter or unintentional manslaughter. I am inclined to pick the last one.)
[I surely don't know, Snoopy, but if he's not charged with something, it would be downright wrong.]
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my earlier post, Dave. I'll have to see if I can track down the short-cut reference (but I think I heard it on TV). BTW, I say "short-cut" to avoid saying "cut-through", which of course is already being used in this story.
Regarding GZ saying that TM was running: I believe he slanted the truth the way he slanted everything else he said. I believe TM began to "walk fast" as the gf quoted him as saying and GZ figured that was close enough to running to say "yep, he's running"--because "running" is another one of those "suspicious" things to do (like wearing a hoodie and having something in his hands). I believe TM said he wouldn't run, he would only walk fast, because he knew full well that "running" is one of those things you're not supposed to do as a young black man. One of the great ironies of this case is that there are people who argue that TM really _was_ acting in a suspicious manner, using the fact that he "ran" as a sign of guilt, and other people who argue that TM must have been the aggressor in the actual confrontation because he could have run away but didn't, and consider _that_ a sign of guilt. Talk about damned if you do....
[No problem, portia. I always try to respond when I have the time. Comes with the territory.
I also believe GZ twisted the truth from the 911 call on. The sad thing now, of course, is that people will find TM guilty of something because he was black, although they'd be the first ones to beg to differ; that their opinion has nothing to do with that. The bottom line is still that GZ was warned about following TM. It's as plain as day that he was tailing the guy, and for someone to come along and say, “Well, we don't know that,” is a load of crap. GZ admitted that he was doing it. How does that put the onus on TM? GZ was no cop, and what he did was a cop's job, not his. Had TM been confronted by a cop, this wouldn't have happened. GZ was way out of his jurisdiction as a cop wannabe. Period. And that's why TM is dead. Period. Why is he being made out to be a hero of some sort?]
The knocking sound towards the end of Zimmerman's 911 call is bugging me. Some have heard what sounds like a door rapper at the 2:42, 2:46, 3:01, 3:03, 3:07, and 3:35 point in the tape.
This seems like a reasonable group to ask. Anybody else thought about this?
Was George warning the neighborhood? Or looking for help? Is it possible he walked through one of the townhomes to the rear and saw Trayvon?
[It's very reasonable to ask, milo, and I do hear some clicking sounds, almost like the closing of a screen door, but I have no idea what they are. Any ideas? Anyone?]
This is interesting for those who follow the law and its interpretation. This is in reference to a person claiming self-defense and being able to gain immunity.
ANALYSIS-Zimmerman's challenge in citing Stand Your Ground
(Dave~~if Zimmerman is ever charged and in all likelihood it will go before a jury, where will they ever find an impartial jury? I guess they cannot go out of state but if that were the case.... They are having rallies in Alaska and I expect Hawaii has followed suit.)
[Unless this is determined to be a hate crime, which I doubt, the federal government will have no say and it's just a state issue. Do I think Zimm could get an impartial jury? HAH! One only need turn to Casey to answer that question.]
Milo~~ to my knowledge, no one has come forward to saying they heard a knock on their door. Maybe it was Zimmerman tapping his fingers because he was so hyper. It also could be noises picked up at the dispatchers office where many operators are busy relaying msges to all the patrol cars. I will give another little listen. Thank you for bringing that to our attention.
Milo~~I listened and it did not sound like a door rapper. I did hear the noises you are referring to. I am going out on a limb here and if I had to make one of my uneducated guesses , I would say it sounded like someone opening a gun and checking to see if there was enough bullets in the chamber and then clicking it closed. The only other thing is that George was really chomping and smacking his gum.
[Dave ~~well two different versions are good huh? Yours and mine. I do like my one best .]
For what it is worth, from just a small voice, I agree with Dave that for those of ANY color to carry a vendetta from historical ignorances, should let it go. I do feel Bill Cosby makes an effort to convey that to all people and will put his intent for the good of all, over that of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton any day of the week, because I see JJ and AS as clinging to a past to rev up a people who have no cause today to have hatred fed against us as citizens where our ancestors in so many respects were a disgrace to the human race. I am white, yes, and nowhere in my recent families, going back through my greatgrandparents did I ever know of or hear negativity against anyone of differing cultures and race. HISTORY tells me that it did exist but it is difficult for us considered of the white race to understand why ways of the past mean and ignorant, are still laid on us today, as being responsible, since we were never a part of that past history. If we dwell on one race, such as mine and our past, then we all need to be enlightened of past horrors of any and all races. I can only determine that those of a mind like JJ and AS have something personal to gain by their keeping to fan the flicker into a flame. In some way it may be their need to be considered heros, fighting for a cause, just as George Zimmerman states he was doing, when a cause should be recognized for the gain in good in todays society for EVERY race. In America we are an open book of past differences and don't forget those of "white" background have had their troubles too and still do. White on white, black on black, race on race, one on another! For what we all know of our own hate divisions of our past ancestors, we have all murdered our own and each other. JJ, AS and other like personalities of different races most always pop up with the same "plea", always making it "their people's" pain, only their's, which is absolutely not true. So many hearts are filled with anguish for the way Trayvon's death occured, hearts that are ready to have the truth and accountabilities examined and hopefully will be for the betterment out of the tragic. We can not always apologize for or correct the actions of others just because of HISTORY! I can apologize for my own ignorant behavior from time to time and am not too proud to do so, except sometimes I don't realize just how ignorant I am and need to be told.
[You're right, New Puppy, and I just wish people would move away from race issues, but the sad fact remains; they still exist. What happens next, if the special prosecutor finds no clear evidence of racial profiling? Do we erupt in a racial civil war? No! Is Joe Oliver, George Zimmerman's black friend, branded an Uncle Tom and chased out of town? No! So what's next?]
I think that we have come a long way regarding race issues but the dialogue that this incident has generated tells me that we have quite a ways to go. This case whether we like it or not -is- a race issue. I can say with confidence that the vast majority of black families are up in arms about this whole thing and it looks like it has deepened that old wound or perception that a black life is less valued than a white life. mark my word, if this guy is not charged, it will greatly deepen an already healthy size wound.
Some how we have to all find a way to problem solve in a meaningful way.
[I think problems will exist between races forever, Porky3100. We need only look at the Old Testament to see it from thousands of years ago. Some things never die, but for sure, things are a whole lot better than they used to be prior to LBJ and MLK, Jr. Of course, it's taken the south a bit longer and that includes the misperceptions in the north, that bigotry no longer exists here. Some towns are well over it and some aren't. I feel it's more of a regional thing today. Think of Selma 40 years ago and consider it now. Like people, some towns grow up and mature sooner than others.
I would think that the vast majority of people, including whites, are well aware of the plights of minorities. We must, then, recognize that some of them just cannot believe this sort of racism still exists in the world we know now. But it does, and it's a shock. Not everyone finds it palpable.]
Dave et al....
I maintain that we cannot live in the past, instead we must learn from our past and strive to make the future better. For those who always dredge up wrongdoings in the past and use those today to their advantage, they will never achieve their goals. They will remain stuck in a rut because that is much easier than to take the initiative and move forward.
Here is an example of what happened in my country. Newfoundland was one of the last provinces to join the Confederation. In 1949 they finally joined. Prior to that it was under British rule. When the British first explored Newfoundland, there was an Indian tribe living on the land, the Beothuks. The British hunted down this indian tribe and shot them and wiped out the whole tribe. It was like they went on one of their fox hunts.
The Beothuks
Members of the First Nation are given many free benefits today for all the wrongdoing by the whites. Students from the First Nation and Blacks, here in Nova Scotia, are paid to go to school and also receive free scholarships to enroll in college. If I used the 'N' word, it would be the same as if I pointed a gun at someone and threatened their life. I would be charged and off to the slammer. Now if they called me a white honky, first I would laugh and then just shrug it off so no one would end up eating grits behind bars. I do notice that the blacks use the 'N' word against each other and I have witnessed this.
( I swore that I would not bring up my country in this blog. Dave can delete this if he sees fit.)
I just can't rap my head around people who shun others because of race, color or creed. Everyone should be treated equal if they are law abiding citizens. If not, white, black or other should be treated accordingly if they do not conform with the laws. I wish everyone would take Bill Cosby's advice. What is wrong with reaching for the skies and only making it to a cloud? It is the effort that matters, right?
What will things eventually come to? Will we start killing off the elderly and people with disabilities because they are inferior and a minority? Geez....)
[In a world without color barriers and through a pair of rose-colored glasses, Snoopy, I would agree, but there's a problem here. Sanford has a history of this sort of thing. The next town over? Nah, they haven't had any problems in generations. One of the reasons why Sanford got called on it was because it's been on the radar for a long time, and the townspeople are sick of it. That's the key issue here. In other parts of the country, they are marching for Trayvon, not for Selma, where changes were made years ago. That's what this is all about. Even in Orlando, the marchers aren't marching against Orlando. The Sanford police didn't do their job. They never subpoenaed anyone or anything. The investigation was over before it began. Perhaps they were just too lazy, but it sure made them look bad.]
Dave,
Unfortunately I've been real busy today and i never got the opportunity to read the most recent post but i hope to tomorrow. What i did want to at least mention in passing how ludicrous things are take for instance this case and how there are no arrests but in Ft. Myers, FL a lady who was sunbathing topless was arrested...ohhh the irony
[It's good to know you keep abreast of the news, BMan. Gee... I hope I don't get lectured for my silly attempt at a little himor, something that's sorely needed at this juncture. At least here, anyway.]
Dave~ ~ that cow up in your banner is breaking the law!
Many women go out exposing more than half of their breasts so is it a nipple thing? Is there is a law on the books stating this? If it is a nipple thing, then I want all men arrested who go out showing their chest.
[So, you'd like me to change my name to Dave Knepple, maybe?]
According to a report from WFTV 9 in Florida: George Zimmerman could be arrested as soon as this week:
Two sources told WFTV on Monday that gunman George Zimmerman could be arrested this week, and that a Grand Jury will not meet on Tuesday.
Read more here....
REPORT: George Zimmerman Could Be Arrested For Shooting Trayvon Martin This Week
SnoopySlueth's comment that the "clicking" sound on the 911 dispatch tape intrigues me. It has bothered me that following Zimmerman's shooting of Trayvon that when police arrived, his weapon was already reholstered. It just doesn't seem natural that if you have just had a physical altercation ending in you pulling your gun and shooting someone that you would reholster your gun without there being some "thought" into your reason for doing so. My natural instinct would have been to (1) continue pointing it at the assailant, or if I was sure that the assailant was incapacitated and no longer a threat, I would have (2) placed the gun down on the ground because the police would be on their way and I would not want to be "armed" when they arrived. Although this is merely my speculation, I suspect that Zimmerman already had his gun unholstered and in hand or pulled his gun on Trayvon upon confronting him, which is when Trayvon began screaming for help and what we hear in the 911 tape. Whatever occurred, I simply do not believe that Zimmerman was able to unholster his weapon while on his back with Trayvon straddling him - I believe the gun was already unholstered. So I am wondering if Zimmerman reholstered his gun because he was attempting to conceal the fact that he had brandished the gun at Trayvon. So, SnoopySlueth's guess that the sound is that of someone loading their gun or checking that the gun is loaded falls right in with my suspicions.
I have not had the time to do so - but if you go back and listen to GZ's dad's account of how the altercation occurred between his son and Trayvon, it is physically impossible for everything to have occurred in that manner. I believe GZ's dad has given two or three different interviews and during each one, he adds a new perspective to the altercation. While I know this is not "evidence" it tells me that the Zimmerman camp is constructing GZ's defense by adding new tidbits to fit the self-defense claim and the questions posed by the media/public. First, Trayvon was beating the bejesus out of Zimmerman by sitting atop him and pounding his head against concrete - note that GZ has a buzz cut, so it would take both of Trayvon's hands to do this; Second interview, Trayvon has pinned GZ's arms down with his knees - so how does GZ unholster the gun? Third, Trayvon hand his hand over GZ's mouth - how could Trayvon being pounding his head and covering his mouth at the same time? And, how was GZ yelling for help if his mouth was covered? Too many discrepancies.
I also do not believe you are too far off from being spot on that not only had GZ rehearsed his police calls and used the same M.O. time and time again, but he was well versed in the stand your ground law, he knew exactly what to say. I will go one step further by adding that he also knew to immediately phoned daddy to cover his behind by making the necessary contacts with the Chief of Police and State Attorney.
JMHO
Thanks Dave
[Hello, CherokeeNative -
You bring up some important and valid points. But first, the clicking sounds were brought up by milo and Snoopy then addressed it. Therefore, milo gets the credit for it first. Not to take away from Snoopy, either.
Just like the old West, huh? The dude pulls out his gun, shoots and reholsters it. I wonder if he blew the smoke off it. Actually, it's not funny in any way, shape or form, but it sure does seem like Zimmerman read it like a Hollywood script. I wonder if he figured the cops would treat him like some sort of hero. Why else would he not put the gun on the pavement? He knew the cops were on their way. As for whether the gun was unholstered as he approached his suspect, I don't know. He could have unsnapped the strap that kept it in the holster.
Your ideas about the Zimmerman spins is quite interesting, too. QUITE INTERESTING! I think that this is stuff that the special prosecutor should be looking at. Excellent work. I like the way your brain works!
Thank you, CherokeeNative - Dave]
.
Here is something else I found about the 911 call...
Anyone with an iota of sense should know when making a 911 call is to identify yourself first and foremost and then give your location. This is vital and, if you are calling from a cell phone, it also saves time in trying to trace the pings of the call location.
We know that Zimmerman did not identify himself when he made that call. Big mistake. What if someone had fired a gun and killed Z? It can happen in an instant. Z was three quarters of the way thru the call before he had to be prompted to give his name. He just gave his first name, "George." Then he had to be prompted again to give his last name. He also was timid and did not want to give out his address. Why?
It would have been so easy.....
"This is George Zimmerman, captain of Neighborhood Watch. Right now I am....he gives his location..then he describes the reason for his call...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/09/travon-martin-george-zimmerman_n_1412693.html
George Z. Seeking money for his defense!!!
Are you following him ? - Yeah.
Ok..we don't need you to do that. - ok ( kinda reluctantly ).
Folks in the Z camp have clung onto the above exchange as proof that Z did not make a move after being advised so by the dispatch. But listen to the following conversation...
Do you want to meet with them ( cops ) by the mailboxes ? - Yeah That's fine.
Ok I 'll let them know you are out there - Actually could you have them call me ?
Z was at the cut-through at that point. He is not in front of an apartment to give it's address. The dispatch asks him to hang around the mailboxes when the police come in. And Z's response to the suggestion is to have them call his mobile number. He was not about to stand around near some mailboxes and let ' these a$$holes always get away'. No Siree...not today.
When all was said and done...the body and Z were not found at the cut-through or his car. Who went after who again ?
I don't understand G. Zimmerman's need to solicit for money to pay for his defense. Did Casey just happen to luck out that Jose Baez took her case and she did not pay or what goes. I thought defense attorneys were appointed by the state if one couldn't pay. Never really knew for sure. Is it thought that Zimmerman has gathered some know how from the Anthony case, like how to lie and twist to the point there is nothing that can be believed. Just Like Trayvon, little Caylee could never speak her piece as to what actually happened, so there are never any TWO sides to determine conclusively what the whole truth is.
Yes Dave, you are right and it occurred to me that I failed to give Koodos to Milo for picking up on the clicking in the 911 tape to begin with - good catch Milo !!
Skalathil - I am in agreement with this scenario. I don't think GZ was in the process of returning to his vehicle when the confrontation occurred. I believe GZ knew to say this to be in compliance with the SYG laws.
First, I want to rebut the notion that there was a rash of burglaries in the Retreat at Twin Lakes. According to Frank Taffe, Zimmerman's neighbor, there was a grand total of EIGHT burglaries in a period of 15 months. That works out to be a burglary about every eight weeks. That might be a cause for concern but it's still a relatively small number. It's likely that residents of Twin Lakes had a false sense of security from living in a gated community and by their standards, EIGHT burglaries was an epidemic.
Based on the information at present, I am not aware of anyone being arrested by Sanford police for any of those burglaries. IMO, these gated communities foster an US versus THEM mentality. Outsiders were seen as the other and were viewed suspiciously. My theory is that it is possible that some or even all of these burglaries may have been committed by a person or persons who had access to the gated community like a resident or someone who was performing some kind of work within the gated community.
My second point is that George Zimmerman is a nosy person who seemingly would report potholes to the police. I don't know about you, but when I notice potholes, I would contact the local DPW. It just seems strange to make calls to the cops about something as innocuous as potholes or garbage. Then again, Zimmerman would call the cops if someone had an open garage. How many of you who have garages have either forgotten to close it or you leave it open because you are going out later and the garage is very noisy when you open and close it so you leave it open.
My point is that Zimmerman was on some kind of rules fetish. Who calls the cops about suspicious 7 year olds or about kids playing in the street. This is what the BTK Killer in Witchita , KS was like. Dennis Rader was a compliance officer who would strictly and zealously enforce code ordinances and hand out fines because he enjoyed the power trip. I AM NOT COMPARING GZ TO A SERIAL KILLER, but pointing out that they shared at least some personality traits.
Moreover, it seems that of his 46 phone calls to the Sanford PD, Zimmerman called almost exclusively about black males only. We can debate whether or not he was racist, but he certainly seemed biased at minimum.
HAD Zimmerman said nothing to the police after the shooting, his defense would be much stronger IMO. There are too many inconsistencies and holes in the story, which has been revised multiple times. Based on the evidence which has been publicly available, it would appear that he is not being truthful.
The prime example of this is the absence of any visible injuries to Zimmerman per the police video. My wife used to be a nurse and she says that even tiny scalp lacerations bleed a lot until they are either stitched or covered with steri-strips. Where was the blood? The grass stains? The wet jacket? Each of those were described in the police report by Officer Smith but are not present in the video. Some suggested that Zimmernan was "cleaned up" by EMTs at the scene. At best they had around 10 minutes to treat him, which they did in the back of the squad car presumably because Zimmerman had already been cuffed. Statements by those EMTs will shed light on whether or not Zimmerman is truthful. What we do know is that it is unlikely that Zimmerman was given fresh clothing prior to being brought to the police station. Why? He is wearing the exact same clothing that Officer Smith mentioned in his police report.
Someone raised a point about Trayvon being able to sprint about 100 yards to his father's girlfriend's house in about 12-15 seconds. Really? In the dark, wearing clothing not designed for athletic activity, but the key reason this sounds implausible is the fact that he had his headset on, so he would have had to hold it to keep from falling off. Do you think anyone could run that far that fast while holding onto a headset?
I would also like to touch upon the various comments that certain OPs made about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. While I am not a fan of theirs, I do find it very telling that the same people accusing Sharpton and Jackson of being "race hustlers" or instigators, have no problem with Neo-Nazis "patrolling" Sanford or having Koran-burning pastor Terry Jones doing the same thing. For that matter, what about George Zimmerman's self-serving letter that links him to such racist groups like VDare and allowing the posting of vandalism at a black student center at Ohio State University. Zimmerman and his defenders "doth protest too much" literally bending over backwards to demonstrate how he isn't actually racist. IMO, this takes on a comic tone, not unlike the Seinfeld episode where George thinks that his supervisor with the Yankees, Mr. Morgan, who is black, thinks George has some racist leanings. In order to demonstrate to Mr. Morgan that he isn't racist and has black friends, he enlists Carl, a black man who once exterminated Jerry's apartment, as a beard to show Morgan he has black friends.
It is still premature as to whether or not Zimmerman will get charged, and if so, will he even be convicted. The Sanford PD, with the possible exception of lead investigator Chris Serino, never canvassed the neighborhood, never really interviewed witnesses other than taking down their name, age, address, and phone number. Much of the potential evidence is forever lost since the Sanford PD never followed protocol for a fatal shooting. In short there are too many unanswered questions about this case, but one thing is certain: HAD George Zimmerman left the police work for the ACTUAL POLICE and not left his vehicle and pursued Trayvon, the youth would still be alive today. That fact is unimpeachable.
Govt Mule. You make a very astute observation about the burglaries. How did the neighbors and Zimmerman -know- that the perpetrators of these burglaries were black if no one was ever caught?
The very fact that they assumed the perpetrators were black raises a huge red flag in my eyes.
I can give you a first hand example too. I live in a fairly nice and upscale subdivision in West Orange county. Back in 2008 there had been a few home break ins mostly during the day when people were at work. Rumors swirled that it was likely people from PIne Hills ( which is about a ten minute drive) Of course no one actually SAW the perpetrators.
It turns out that the thieves were a group of white men who would regularly do work in the neighborhood as handymen, roof cleaners and pressure washers.
This is what amazes me about the people who just "know" that Zimmerman was not a racist. I cannot say one way or another-except that on the surface, the smell just is not right.
My theory is that George Zimmerman was himself, the burglar. Having done all the break ins he wanted to at that location he then found a scapegoat and killed Trayvon Martin, with the intent of wiping his own criminal slate clean and coming out the hero. Being the burglar himself, he would never get caught, after all he knew the Neighborhood Watchman quite intimately.
Very interesting points by Govt Mule.
Live Stream- Zimmerman and lawyers news conference
I think George is going to harm himself ...
A non-compliant client, huh. Who'd a thunk it...wouldn't listen to the 9-1-1 guy, won't listen to them either.
He's handing the prosecutors a lot to work with, frankly.
Well Dave i finally was able to sit down and read your recent post and, as always, superb doesn't quite do it justice. Although my attempt at humor may have came off a little brash or un-caring I just thought it funny how something like the Zimmerman/Martin case is on a spectrum of sorts.
Reviewing some of the posts it appears i cannot really add to what people have already suggested or pointed out. Here in my local market there are reports that this has gone on way to long implying that this is a racially motivated incident and that this should be let go. Although i think race played a role i dont think that's where the uproar is at. The fact that someone killed an alleged suspect w/o being investigated and believed that he did it in self defense is what's really objectionable.
I hope that sometime in the near future a thorough investigation is done to substantiate what is alleged but how do you prove you feared for your life if the other is dead?
FYI~~just spoke with Dave...he is having a few puter issues and will be a bit delayed in coming in to respond to your comments.
Snoopy, if he goes that route, and does not complete the act, we could be afraid to have an opinion. Perhaps a sympathy act. If he does complete the act, some possibly will have a guilt trip for having an opinion. I still question if this man has been known to have any type of mental retardation. I would not be surprised he has a one track way of thinking and reasoning that possibly has never been taken into consideration even within the family. Any investigation of his school records, behavior, etc. of the past, might be enlightening. The immediate reaction of people after a crime is often extremely harsh, which is too bad for a truly innocent that are being accused. However, it should be easier for Zimmerman to convince us that he acted within National Neighborhood Watch rules, and I personally do not find he did that is all respects. It would be foolish for him to harm himself, I for one have no reason to feel any guilt for it, and I do feel his actions brought about a tragic death of a young man who's behavior gave no reason to suspect he was up to no good.
I see Zimmerman's attorneys have withdrawn from his defense. Is it possible they have fear of harm, suspecting this could grow into more volatile racial accusations.
FYI~ ~ The special prosecutor's office will make an announcement of their decision within the next 72 hours. Media will be given three hours notice- in advance.
Martin is at his father’s fiancée’s home. This is a foreign neighborhood to him, let alone walking it at night. Coming back towards home, he was probably lost, walking around, looking at homes looking for something that looked familiar. ( I can see Trayvon getting lost in a community where all of the houses look alike). Along comes Zimmerman, he sees a suspect wandering, checking homes out. He does the right thing and calls the Neighborhood Watch Line, not 911 as some say. He is on the line for over 4 minutes; he speaks very calmly, very clearly. He responds to questions from the person on the line. Zimmerman is describing everything Martin is doing. The operator taking the call asks Zimmerman “what race is the guy, white black Hispanic” Zimmerman responds”I think he is black”. Notice, he was asked and his response was “thinking” he was black. No Racism there at all. I also want you to note something here. We have heard there was a call from the girlfriend claiming she was on the phone at the same time Zimmerman was perusing Martin. What is important is this, the 911 tapes all have times, even the install call to the neighborhood watch representatives he had on the live for over 4 minutes has times, but the “call” made from the girlfriend has no times attached to it, not anywhere or in any report does it state the time of the call. Also notice when Zimmerman is answering the gentleman on the phone, as Zimmerman is asked what is the suspect doing. Zimmerman gives all kinds of descriptions but one, he never says that Martin is on the phone. Zimmerman is quite clear about the movements of Martin, why no mention of a phone call? (bold mine)
I just found this part of the article rather interesting.
This Was Not About Racism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20D8-7kjN9k&feature=uploademail
George Zimmerman's former attorney on what happened the night Trayvon Martin was killed
His former attorney adds a bit to the story~
I venture to say that today's Press Conference was completely out of line for reputable defense attorneys. Why are they doing this when they have only been out of contact with their client for less than 48 hour? I am guessing that they were informed on Monday by the special prosecutor that she is ready to announce her decision (and giving GZ's attorneys a courtesy call that there will be charges and to make the necessary arrangements to produce GZ for charges). They have been unable to contact him and this press conference is their way of communicating with GZ and CYAing themselves. They are back peddling because they can't find their client and I bet the special prosecutor has now given them 72 hours to produce Zimmerman or a warrant will be issued for his arrest. Wagers anyone? There is no other reason why these reputable defense attorneys would have pretty much made an opening statement in GZs defense today, brought out the possibility that GZ may be having PTSD issues...this just isn't done in the legal field - not when you have resigned. If anything, they were trying to communicate with GZ via the media and CYAing themselves with the prosecutor.
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- In a news release issued by the State Attorney's Office Tuesday evening, state attorney Angela Corey announced she will hold a conference within the next 72 hours regarding the Trayvon Martin shooting death investigation.
State Attorney To Hold Trayvon Conference Within 72 Hours
A poster says this:
While I am not a fan of theirs, I do find it very telling that the same people accusing Sharpton and Jackson of being "race hustlers" or instigators, have no problem with Neo-Nazis "patrolling" Sanford or having Koran-burning pastor Terry Jones doing the same thing.
Excuse me? How do you know this for a fact? I'm one who calls Sharpton and Jackson racists and race hustlers because their past actions have proven it. Tawana Brawley? The Crown Heights riots? Hymietown remarks? All a historical fact. Hmmm...Anyways, I never approved of Terry Jones actions but it is America and it was his Koran to do with as he wished. In America it is perfectly constitutional to insult others' beliefs. Otherwise there is censorship. And if you keep abreast of what Islam is trying to do in and to our nation you would be pissed off like Terry Jones, too. Unless you are a Muslim, that is. Personally, I believe in respecting all religions so long as those religions do not break laws with their beliefs and do not try to supercede the U.S. Constitution with their sharia laws or any such laws that they say they must have to practice their religion. I stand with Terry Jones on that much but the burning of a Koran as a public statement, imo, is puposefully disrespectful - just like the flag burnings by the radical Muslims. Or any hate America groups.
The Neo-Nazi story turned out to be false. However, the New Black Panthers call to kill and destroy the honkys and crackers in this nation is very real. How do you feel about that? Its OK for a group of hatemongers to threaten an American citizen by putting a bounty on his head? Yet, these very people wanted the bounties made on football players to be investigated. Hypocrits. The DOJ is so very silent and inactive when this racist group does anything illegal and unconstitutional.
New Black Panthers Call For Race War During Planning Session For Trayvon Martin Protest: We Have To Spill The Blood of White Devils…
On the other stuff about Zimmerman, I've not heard that about. A link would be appreciated but then again, does it really have anything to do with this crime or is it merely to keep racism at the forefront? Just about everyone is done with the "racism" aspect of this crime except for the NBP. Even Sharpton seems to be letting this go-its not as racist as he thought. IMO, if there's any racism its on the part of the PD. I agree with you that they didn't do their job initially as they should have.
You said:
HAD George Zimmerman left the police work for the ACTUAL POLICE and not left his vehicle and pursued Trayvon, the youth would still be alive today. That fact is unimpeachable.
ITA~
Sherry. I am very puzzled by the claim of yours "He does the right thing and calls the Neighborhood Watch Line, not 911 as some say.". Please clarify who answers the Neighborhood watch line and how this is different from the 912 line? But assuming there is a Neighborhood watch line, why would he deviate from his normal practice of calling 911 in this instance?