More from "My bus runneth over"
Thursday, August 26, 2010 at 9:01PM ENTERING THROUGH THE BACK DOOR
Casey's tragic bus took another wrong turn when it recently handed her former and final boyfriend, Anthony Lazzaro, a copy of a subpoena duces tecum without deposition for phone records from January 2009 to present.
What's this all about? Casey has been locked up for how long? What would her legal team want to do with poor Tony's cell phone records for the past year-and-a-half plus? William Jay, his attorney, thinks that whatever it is, it's no good. He countered by filing a MOTION TO QUASH SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM. Should Baez & Mason be surprised?
What exactly is a subpoena duces tecum without deposition? A subpoena duces tecum is a summons ordering a party to appear before the court and produce documents, in this case, cell phone records, that could be used at a hearing or at Casey's trial. The literal translation from Latin is to "bring with you under penalty of punishment." The without deposition part means that Lazzaro would not be compelled to appear in person to offer those documents. Whew, what a lucky break.
Here's the problem that the defense doesn't get. After a hearing last August, Judge Stan Strickland - yes, the fine, upstanding and highly revered judge the defense had removed from the case this past April - ordered that, "the time frame allowed to be subject to a subpoena duces tecum was from June 1, 2008 to December 18, 2008."
If you recall, the defense wanted Roy Kronk's cell phone records, too, for a similar period of time. They were denied that request. Poor Roy Kronk was one of the first ones the defense pointed incriminating fingers at while tossing him under a few speeding Van Hool tires.
What would Casey's attorneys do with Anthony Lazzaro's cell phone records from the past twenty months or so? Imagine looking into each and every person he ever made and received calls to and from. Why, if only half of them could be investigated for the next three years, give or take, two things may happen. One, the trial would surely be postponed, and two, there may be a Zenaida or two in that there briar patch. That's a thought, but Baez can't afford another three years pro bono and Mason will be retired by then. No, it's not that. What actually strikes me as funny is that this team recklessly pursues everyone law enforcement has cleared. This includes the Grunds, her former friends, Kronk, of course, and a number of others.
Do I think the defense is trying to pin the crime on Lazzaro? No, I do not. Once again, this is a feeble attempt to discredit the state's prime witnesses, and if he ever made a prank call to Pizza Hut and it's in those records, all of his credibility will fly out the window. "Your honor, this proves the state's witness is unreliable."
I expect this sort of treatment. It is the defense's job to tarnish everyone the state plans to call up to the stand, excluding experts who will go head-to-head with their own slate, but in this particular case, as in many others; just what does the defense really need 26+ months of phone records for? As soon as Lazzaro realized who and what he was possibly dating, he high-tailed it. Casey bit the dust and is, most likely, nothing more than a morbid thought in his mind today. Meanwhile, all this team seems to be going after is the stand-up crowd, with no Zenaida in the patch. Anthony Lazzaro's phone records aren't worth a rabbit's foot. He moved on with his life. Should his girlfriend of today be slapped around, too?
In his wisdom, Judge Strickland made the right and proper call. With Judge Belvin Perry now at the helm, did the defense realize it would lose another Motion for Reconsideration of Prior Rulings if it chose to go that route instead, so, let's choose another path? Enter through the back door. Hand little guy Tony an official order and hope he doesn't take it to his lawyer. Well, he did, and William Jay knew exactly what to do with it. So will Judge Perry.
Dave Knechel | in Casey Anthony, Caylee Anthony, Cheney Mason, Chief Judge Belvin Perry, Dave Knechel, Death Penalty, Human Interest, Jesse Grund, Jose Baez, Judge Stan Strickland, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave’s Caylee Anthony Posts, Ninth Circuit Court, Orange County Circuit Court, Richard Grund, Roy Kronk, Subpoena Duces Tecum, Tony Lazzaro, William Jay, Zenaida Gonzalez | Share Article | 1 Reference 
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Reader Comments (129)
Ricardo Morales said that Caylee slept in the same bed with him and Casey.
Catching up, and just thought of something. Casey could possibly argue that this was an accidental death- she just wanted to shut Caylee up, and applied too dang much Henkel tape to the general mouth area, inadvertently getting it over the nose area. Not that that's what she did, but could she plausibly argue such a thing- after all they only need one doubtful juror...
Hi snoopy, I know I just feel Casey never brought Caylee home and then went back to Ricardos. I can't see Cindy even going for that.
If anyone needs a refresher on this incident it's on YouTube P2 of 3 Ricardo Morales Police Interview 7/25/08
When I first heard Ricardo recall this incident I got chills. Ricardo said Casey told him her mother called and wanted Caylee home ... I can't even picture Casey answering her Mother's call in that situation, let alone run Caylee home on Cindys demand.
Hi Karen, we haven't heard any word from the defense about an accidental death, but your guess is as good as mine with how they'll roll once the trial gets started.
I think they will have a hard time going with an accidental death because she has told the nanny story way too many times. Her family has also stated the nanny story too many times It will be too hard for them to get around. The defense can say that she lied about the nanny story because she was afraid to say it was accidential, but how would they explain away the family stating time and time again to the media and in their depositions that it was the nanny. They are still using the nanny story to this day.
In the days leading up to June 15/08, Cindy was contemplating getting custody of Caylee. I think Cindy put the fear of hell in Casey, one wrong move and you are out of here and Caylee stays. Cindy even went to a counsellor about Casey but when the counsellor told Cindy to put Casey out, Cindy knew it would mean losing Caylee so she quit going for advice. It is not an easy task for a g/parent to get cusody of a g/child without just cause.
During the interview that LE had with Casey at Universal, Casey hinted that she was frightened of her mother. Alot of Casey's friends said that when they went out at night, Cindy forever called Casey to check on her. I think if Cindy called and demanded Casey bring Caylee home that it was on a Friday or Saturday nite so Cindy could take care of Caylee the next day. That is the only way that Casey would end up back at Ricardo's minus Casey.
An accidental death will never fly. If your child dies accidentally, you don't get instant amnesia and forget how to call 911. A limp child with 3 layers of duct tape over her airways hardly looks accidental.
I don't think, at the stage of putting the tape on, that Casey was trying to stage a kidnapping. She made up that story, just in case, over the next 31 days. She thought the remains would never be found and that story would never have to come into play.
When Casey left (not ditched) the Pontiac at Amscot, the vehicle was locked and her work bag, not her purse, was left on the front seat. Casey intended to go back for the car. I can always stand to be corrected. This is just my take on things.
I have been gone for a couple of days visiting with family and friends, so now I am trying to catch up with everyone's thoughts.
I thought that there was some mention out there that Casey used chloroform on Caylee when she had her when she was partying or was it Xanax? Hence the name, Zanny the nanny? Since the chloroform was with Caylee's remains I am guessing Casey actually used it either all the time when she wanted to party or just that one time when she killed her. But since she put the tape on Caylee's nose and mouth what was the purpose of the chloroform? As far as Casey "cooking" up the chloroform, that stuff from what someone posted is pretty volatile and Casey does not seem like the kind of person to be that careful, but then if she wanted to knock out Caylee so she could party, I would guess she would be careful. But she would have had to do it at home and you would think that Cindy and George would notice the smell of chloroform. But then we are talking about two people that raised someone that they did not see was a psychopath, vindictive liar who had the propensity to murder Caylee.
All of your posts are so good, I am glad to be back to be able to read everyone's thoughts.
Hi Peggy~~good to have you back in the fold friend. There was alot of speculation that Casey put Caylee to sleep with Xanax because its street name is zanny. None of Casey's friends ever admitted to seeing Casey put Caylee to sleep with any drug. Of course, the state can be holding some info back regarding it.
If anyone was making chloroform and got a whiff of it, they would go bye byes for a short time. The odor of chloroform dissipates quickly so you can make it, seal the container and noone would be the wiser. Chloroform was used as an anaesthetic years ago. Patients used to be sick to the stomach after being sleep induced with that stuff. Its use was discontinued in hospitals.
Snoopy, I feel that Casey was not going to go back for that car. I think she was hoping that someone would come along and see the stuff in it and try to get away with stealing it. I can't remember if the keys were in the car or not. If the car was stolen, then that would give her a reason to say that someone else killed Caylee. JMO
Thanks Snoopy for the nice welcome back.
I guess I will take how to make chloroform off my "to do list" LOL. I do remember some of her friends testifying that Caylee would sleep thought all their parties. Some babies do sleep well, but when you add yelling and loud music in the mix, not so much. Then when the child gets older they may not sleep that well, so Casey just may have done something to her. I would not put anything past Casey if you wanted to do something. If Casey wanted it, she got it and if she wanted to do it, she did it. It was always "all about Casey". And how she managed to get away with as much as she did is truly mind boggling. Who on earth would want to be friends with her? I can not even imagine wanting to be in the same room with her.
Mary Jo~~IIRC, Amy bought Casey a gas can so she could go back with some gas and get the car up and running. No keys were left in the car. Casey had Amy's car key in her possessions when Lee went and retrieved her things from Tony's. Lee later destroyed Amy's car key after getting permission from Amy.
Snoopy, why would Lee destroy Amy's keys and why would Amy give her permission?
Peggy~~Casey did a very good job of manipulating her friends with her charisma. Most of Casey's friends described her as a very caring person. They nicknamed her 'the mom' of their group. This is why they were so shocked when this all went down. It was after the fact that they started to question some of Casey's past actions. It is hard to tell how many of Casey's friends may have had things or money stolen because Casey was a pro at covering her tracks.
Casey ripped off $400 from Amy. She had Amy convinced that she sleep walked and hid the money. Amy must have believed Casey because she let Casey borrow her car for that one week Amy was in Porto Rico. After the fact is when Amy realized Casey had duped her.
Peggy, it was probably easier for Amy to get another car key cut than connect with Lee and retrieve her key. At that time, Amy had learned that Casey had wiped out her bank account. I don't imagine she wanted any association with the Anthonys. It was a spare car key, btw.
Thanks Snoopy, I do not think I ever heard about the car keys from Amy. I do not blame her for not wanting anything to do with her once she was arrested and she stole all that money from her.
Mom huh? Boy she really was a manipulator if they thought of her as a Mom, she could not even Mother her own child w/o complaining. I think I feel for Amy and Tony the most they were so hurt by what Casey has done.
Hi SS!
I wonder too if G&CA realize how close they came to the same fate as Caylee - all that business of having Amy ready and waiting to move in with her - as soon as her parents vacated the property! Where the heck was she planning to hide those bodies? Was she going to come home and find what had to be the result of a 'break in'? Or a murder/suicide? One parent offed the other, then them self during yet another fight (the excuse she gave Tony for KC & Caylee not going 'home'.)
The girl is truly diabolical. I just looked up two labs here in the US - one said it would not sell chloroform over the net (call us) - the other - science lab dot com - out of TX (gotta love those Texans!) $41.66 for 100ml!
CA claimed that she never called asking (telling) KC to bring Caylee home - but I can imagine KC just deciding to bring her home to dump her on CA. I was under the impression that Zanny was the the flavor of the week - KC couldn't tell Cindy she had Caylee spending the night with random men - (they denied she did this) so those nights KC was sleeping over with Ricardo (or whoever) she told the Ants she was working late and Caylee was at the Nanny's.
Last week (and off n' on for the last two years) there was a lot of discussion about why CA claimed Caylee was last seen 6/9 - Wasn't KC out of the house from 6/9, til she brought Caylee home to go see GGPa on Father's Day? Would that be why the date stuck in CA's head?
Peggy~~I am not sure if Tony was in love with Casey or not. They started their relationship around the latter part of May, I believe. What guy would turn down maid service, a cook and free sex? I don't think Casey could differentiate what was love and what was sex. She probably was more in love with
Tony than he was with her. Of course, he would tell Casey he loved her, most men do in a heat of passion. No doubt Tony felt used after this all went down. It had to be a hard pill for Tony to swallow knowing that he had a woman sharing his bed and apartment who was charged with murdering her daughter. Then he came to find out that she was bedding so many men around Orlando.
I definitely feel sorry for Amy. She did so many favors for Casey and in the end, got a slap in the face.
Amy was very hurt and she is still probably reeling from what has all gone down. I am not sure I would know how to even act if I had been friends with someone that had been arrested for murdering their child.
You are probably right about Tony not being in love with her, but he did seem to like having her around. I bet he had some pretty sleepless nights when Casey was arrested. Thinking about her being in his bed and Caylee too.
Snooopy, you have this way of seeing people for who they are, not how they come across. I have done that in the past and I would like to believe I would have noticed just what kind of person Casey really was. I still find it hard to believe that she was that good of an actress. There has to be someone in her group of friends that the State has found that can say "yes Casey did do this/that". She could not have fooled all of them
Have to get up early, so... But here's my thinking on the possibility of their bringing in an accidental death scenario. They have to wait to see what the rulings are going to be. They will be left with only a miniscule number of defense cards to play with. If going after some other specific person is basically not allowed they are only going to have 1or 2 ways to go, accidental being one of 'em. Not saying it would work, but if that video of her playing with Caylee on the floor is shown, like, 5+ times to the Jurors, and a reasonable alternative accidental scenario is cooked up, well.....
'Night All!
Karen C ~~I would tell the jury that Casey could adapt to different situations to please her audience.. Was Casey putting on a 'mommie is having a wonderful time romping with her daughter' for Caylee or the person taking that video? If you watch closely, at the very end, Casey practically dumps Caylee on her face. I had someone point that out to me, back when that video was making the rounds. I noticed it too.
Peggy~ ~by no means did Casey fool all her friends. She may have for awhile but a few of them caught her in her lies. Kio Marie Cruz was one of them. Another one was Lauren ?, darn I forget her last name. She baby sat for Casey when Casey said she worked at Sports Authority. Lauren noticed Casey was on Facebook talking about partying on the nites she was supposed to be working. Lauren baby sat for free and quit once she found out Casey was lying.
Just something to ponder...If it was true that Tony told Casey when he started a family, he wanted all boys. Was he sending Casey a message? You would not say that to someone you loved who already had a daughter. I am sure he wasn't telling Casey to get rid of Caylee. Does anyone know if Tony ever stated he made those remarks? Tony did admit teasing Casey alot just to get her going, like the time he said he was going to stay in New York. He had her crying that time on the phone.
Dave~~I have been overly chatty tonite and hope I didn't overstep my boundaries. If I did, please forgive. Nite nite..
Oops almost forgot. Peggy, to my knowledge, Caylee never stayed overnite at Tony's.
The way I understand the boys vs girls story was Tony wanting boys rather than girls, because girls are more difficult to raise and can get themselves into situations (trouble) boys don't. (Tony evidently has younger sisters at home.) Also something to the effect if he had girls, they would be good looking which would make them even more of a handful. It was an awkwardly worded conversation when it was retold.
I've always wondered what story C & G were given over Lauren quitting, CA claimed Lauren babysat for free and left over an "opportunity" - I would love to know if she was honest with the A's re finding out KC was not working - after all the time they pretended to believe she was going to work everyday.
I just heard on CNN Prime that at the status hearing today, they may argue about releasing the commissary info re Casey. I thought Casey would have to be there if they did that. I am not sure CNN has their facts straight so don't take this as gospel.
Snoopy, I would think that she has to be there if they talk about any of the motions. Maybe they will surprise us and have her there. I am sure if they try to bring up any motions that Judge Perry will give them two choices. Either get Casey there quickly or they wait until a date is set to talk about them.
I found this ...
Status Hearing on InSession
Snoopy, et al- TY for link to hearing.
Dave, two things from my impatient little self: a) Are you making this one? and b) those law tomes have certainly paid off...
I am going to try to go to this hearing today, despite it only being a status one.
Thanks for the link, Snoopy. I wonder if we will se George and Cindy there and if their new attorneys will be with them.