More from "My bus runneth over"
Thursday, August 26, 2010 at 9:01PM ENTERING THROUGH THE BACK DOOR
Casey's tragic bus took another wrong turn when it recently handed her former and final boyfriend, Anthony Lazzaro, a copy of a subpoena duces tecum without deposition for phone records from January 2009 to present.
What's this all about? Casey has been locked up for how long? What would her legal team want to do with poor Tony's cell phone records for the past year-and-a-half plus? William Jay, his attorney, thinks that whatever it is, it's no good. He countered by filing a MOTION TO QUASH SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM. Should Baez & Mason be surprised?
What exactly is a subpoena duces tecum without deposition? A subpoena duces tecum is a summons ordering a party to appear before the court and produce documents, in this case, cell phone records, that could be used at a hearing or at Casey's trial. The literal translation from Latin is to "bring with you under penalty of punishment." The without deposition part means that Lazzaro would not be compelled to appear in person to offer those documents. Whew, what a lucky break.
Here's the problem that the defense doesn't get. After a hearing last August, Judge Stan Strickland - yes, the fine, upstanding and highly revered judge the defense had removed from the case this past April - ordered that, "the time frame allowed to be subject to a subpoena duces tecum was from June 1, 2008 to December 18, 2008."
If you recall, the defense wanted Roy Kronk's cell phone records, too, for a similar period of time. They were denied that request. Poor Roy Kronk was one of the first ones the defense pointed incriminating fingers at while tossing him under a few speeding Van Hool tires.
What would Casey's attorneys do with Anthony Lazzaro's cell phone records from the past twenty months or so? Imagine looking into each and every person he ever made and received calls to and from. Why, if only half of them could be investigated for the next three years, give or take, two things may happen. One, the trial would surely be postponed, and two, there may be a Zenaida or two in that there briar patch. That's a thought, but Baez can't afford another three years pro bono and Mason will be retired by then. No, it's not that. What actually strikes me as funny is that this team recklessly pursues everyone law enforcement has cleared. This includes the Grunds, her former friends, Kronk, of course, and a number of others.
Do I think the defense is trying to pin the crime on Lazzaro? No, I do not. Once again, this is a feeble attempt to discredit the state's prime witnesses, and if he ever made a prank call to Pizza Hut and it's in those records, all of his credibility will fly out the window. "Your honor, this proves the state's witness is unreliable."
I expect this sort of treatment. It is the defense's job to tarnish everyone the state plans to call up to the stand, excluding experts who will go head-to-head with their own slate, but in this particular case, as in many others; just what does the defense really need 26+ months of phone records for? As soon as Lazzaro realized who and what he was possibly dating, he high-tailed it. Casey bit the dust and is, most likely, nothing more than a morbid thought in his mind today. Meanwhile, all this team seems to be going after is the stand-up crowd, with no Zenaida in the patch. Anthony Lazzaro's phone records aren't worth a rabbit's foot. He moved on with his life. Should his girlfriend of today be slapped around, too?
In his wisdom, Judge Strickland made the right and proper call. With Judge Belvin Perry now at the helm, did the defense realize it would lose another Motion for Reconsideration of Prior Rulings if it chose to go that route instead, so, let's choose another path? Enter through the back door. Hand little guy Tony an official order and hope he doesn't take it to his lawyer. Well, he did, and William Jay knew exactly what to do with it. So will Judge Perry.
Dave Knechel | in Casey Anthony, Caylee Anthony, Cheney Mason, Chief Judge Belvin Perry, Dave Knechel, Death Penalty, Human Interest, Jesse Grund, Jose Baez, Judge Stan Strickland, Marinade Dave, Marinade Dave’s Caylee Anthony Posts, Ninth Circuit Court, Orange County Circuit Court, Richard Grund, Roy Kronk, Subpoena Duces Tecum, Tony Lazzaro, William Jay, Zenaida Gonzalez | Share Article | 1 Reference 
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Reader Comments (129)
Of course you are right MJ, apparently I was thinking Casey was some kind of normal, silly me. I wonder if we will ever find out why Casey murdered Caylee. We have been speculating for two years and I do believe we have all come up with what probably happen. I would love to know what transpired between Cindy and Casey on the 15th. Something had to have happened to set all this in motion.
Patty, I am not so sure that they would have ever given Casey only 10 years. There is so much evidence against her but when she did not even call LE when Caylee was "kidnapped" I believe she lost anything that could have given her 10 years, if that. I think she would have gotten LWPP, just like Susan Smith did.
Sempre Invictus~~Your theory sounds like something the defense would come up with. Now if they can explain why Casey was so esctatically happy that her child was missing, she celebrated for the next 31 days, they may have a case.
The reason Casey murdered Caylee was a combination of a few things. The one that stands out the most is REVENGE against her mother. I don't believe that Casey ever bonded with Caylee. Getting rid of Caylee meant her freedom from her controlling mother and being able to try and start a brand new life on her own with no responsibilities.
"Put another candle on the birthday cake, you're another year old today!
Happy birthday, to you..
You're another year old today!!
quote from Sheriff John
Great post, Dave. I feel with all the 'clues' Cindy Anthony tried to give the FBI and police, almost anyone could be considered Zenaida. Curly hair, new car, young..on and on..even males are included. I am thankful I don't know them, or my name might e next/ Watch out residents of Orlando, you may be on the list!
I believe it was revenge too Snoopy, but I also believe that Casey hated that Cindy loved Caylee, probably
only in her sick mind, more than her. She may have had some feelings for Caylee, but not enough to take the role of Mother seriously. I really believe that Cindy has some culpability in all this. Casey wanted to give up the baby, Cindy said no, Cindy held Caylee right after she was born, not Casey, Casey did not want the responsibility of Caylee because she wanted to party, Cindy was always on her to take care of her. There was so much friction/yelling in that house it is a miracle she did not do something sooner. She had to be planning this for a while, guess opportunity knocked on June 15/16, how sick.
How could nobody see that something was very wrong with Casey? Were Cindy, George, Lee, all her friends, Tony anyone and or everyone so blind that they did not notice something was very wrong with Casey? This "problem with Casey" did not just start on June 15th/16th, she had to show signs since she was probably a child.
Oh most definitely Peggy something was very wrong in that house for a very long time. Every kid lies but they don't lie as smoothly as Casey does. She doesn't blink and comes up with probable answers off the top of her head that fit smoothly into whatever the lie is. Her lying became pathological. This goes back to the family for sure. I don't know about you but I could catch my kids in a lie about 80% of the time. From when they were very little I told them their eyes changed color when they lied, after which they wouldn't look me in the eye. By the time they figured it out, not looking me in the eye was an ingrained habit. I have to think Cindy and George were so wrapped up in their personal relationship and work that they went from being overindulgent to being overstrict with both failing miserably.
What haunts me is that video of Casey and Tony in the video store at or around the date of Caylee's death. I can just visualize that poor little body lying in her trunk while she's picking out a video. Tony doesn't seem to be bothered at all which reinforces my opinion that he knew nothing about it. Also when her mother showed up at the house it was a complete surprise to everyone inside, Tony included. The defense isn't going to get far with trying to throw dirt that way. Yeah they'll find a little bit but I think it will all come down to that 911 call and the car.
I'm going to take a birthday nap. Thank you ALL for your birthday wishes. Right now, I can smell cake and it's intoxicaking.
I shall return!
I think Casey got away with lying so much to her Mother & friends that she felt confident in getting over with everyone else she came in contact with. All her OLD friends knew she was a liar and they never backed her into a corner, they just let her go on. It's sad no one ever looked at her and called her on it. She must have thought she was so believeable she could talk anyone into believeing anything she said.
I'm glad at least now she knows her OLD friends weren't as gullible as she thought.
I too believe Casey is a SOCIOPATH.
I hope this doesn't bore anyone, but I thought some people here might find this to be interesting reading.
Profile of the Sociopath
This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.
Glibness and Superficial Charm
Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
Incapacity for Love
Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.
Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.
Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.
Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.
Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other Related Qualities:
Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
Authoritarian
Secretive
Paranoid
Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
Conventional appearance
Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
Incapable of real human attachment to another
Unable to feel remorse or guilt
Extreme narcissism and grandiose
May state readily that their goal is to rule the world
(The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.)
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NOTE: In the 1830's this disorder was called "moral insanity." By 1900 it was changed to "psychopathic personality." More recently it has been termed "antisocial personality disorder" in the DSM-III and DSM-IV. Some critics have complained that, in the attempt to rely only on 'objective' criteria, the DSM has broadened the concept to include too many individuals. The APD category includes people who commit illegal, immoral or self-serving acts for a variety of reasons and are not necessarily psychopaths.
Steeplechase Girl, It appears that none of her friends think to much of her, they have distanced themselves from her since almost the second she was arrested. That says a lot about her friends, they want nothing to do with her. But of course it is possible that LE has told them to stay away. Guess she is stuck with the loony peopole that write to her and the guys that are nutty enough to want to marry her, what life you have Casey. Someone should have done something with her a long time ago, and now Caylee is dead and Casey is sitting in a jail cell.
i think that by the time CASEY got involved with her new group of friends, she had totally adapted to her lies and deceptions so much ,until that was the only way she knew how to live. If someone can completely fool her own family ino beleiving that she got up and went to work each day, made enouhg money to have a nanny pulling day and night duty, then it was probably really easy to suck these new friends right on in. They are probably wishing they had been more observant of little Caylee's presance. Maybe Baez is getting ready to write his own book,' How to loose a case and your career in three years.' Can't wait to read yours Dave! Thanks for helping me to understand the mumbo jumbo of Baez andd Mason. Have a wonderful birthday !!! God has given you so many talented gifts.thank you for sharing with all of us.
Margaret, I have been wanting to tell you how much I love your posts. It is obvious that Cindy and George did not "see" what Casey was doing for possibly all of her life. They really kept, and still do, especially Cindy, kept their blinders on.
I think Biaz is very foolish for sticking with this circus, making no money and making a fool of himself all at the same time.
BTW, my name is Margaret too, been called Peggy all my life.
In honor of your birthday, Dave, I shall also take a nap...or give up completely, and go to bed ridiculously early..
THANK YOU Peggy, I really enjoy the bloggers here, lots of great insight from everyone. As hard as I try not to I still want to understand WHY she felt this was her wayto a better life. God and me are going to have some long talks someday.
Margaret, I do not know if you watch JVM on HLN, but she had a whole hour about the Case against Casey, it was very good. Of course it was stuff we already know, but they have not said anything on the shows about her in so long it was nice to see something.
Peggy, I saw the part where they showed the clip that Caylee may have looked in mothers eyes as she killed her. I believe Casey is too much of a coward for that,I think she probably gave her something to put her to sleep first. IMO She is cocky now because she thinks shes the belle of the ball., but when the music is over and she hears GUILTY; we will see the tru Casey/
Happy, Happy, Happy Birthday to Dave, again :) My wish for you ( instead of a gift) is that this year is one of your best ever in all areas of your life!
Thank you, katfish. It's been a great day. Very busy and now I can unwind and relax.
ConnieFl, I just want to say thank you for putting my blog in a group with the likes of Dave and Snoopy.......for a second there I thought it was my birthday :)
You are probably right Margaret, but it makes her look even worse when the DA says that Caylee looked into her MOTHERS eyes as she put the tape over her mouth, not once, not twice but three times. Can you see the jury when he says that? They will look at Casey and cringe.
I had a thought to share about Casey Anthony's defense team's plan for deposing 35 members of LE in one day.....I want warn that I'm feeling rather "katty" for saying this.....but it is honestly the thought that crossed my mind when I read up-thread that perhaps the defense will just ask each deposee(?)
one question. If the question was have you ever had sex with Casey Anthony....assuming a yes answer would disqualify the deposee (or is it despondent?) they should be able to clear up their deposition schedule significantly. Just kidding but there has been a few we know about from OCSO witthout putting them under oath.................katfish paddling like crazy to get her gils out of the sewer.
DAVE - I know you can't reply to each greeting but.... I wanted to wish you a happy, peaceful and joyful day. With many returns of the same. Thank you for all you do.
Thank you, OrlandoNative. It was a very good day.
Happy Birthday to you..Happy Birthday dear Dave..Happy Birthday to you and many many many many more!! Hope you enjoyed the day and you have the most wonderful year ever!!
Thank you, Janet. I had a great day and now, it's time to go to bed, I'm afraid.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DAVE!
This is my special day, also. We're stuck on 29 - Right?
Hope you had a wonderful day - you so deserve it!
You enlighten all your readers with your fantastic work. Thanks.
Thank you, simba. If I'm 29, yesterday was my 29th year of celebrating it. Am I seeing doubles? It was a nice day, actually, but I fell asleep before I wanted to. Oh well, the perils of growing old, I guess. Thanks for enjoying my work.
Great article Dave.HAPPY LATE BIRTHDAY
Thank you, countrynanny. Better late than never. I enjoyed it.
peggy222 - I should have been more clear. I think she could have gotten 10 years for an accidental death. The pool ladder is still a mystery and the rapid series of phone calls that from KC to G&C that no on answered. I still think it's possible that KC sat at home that afternoon (and I think the ping map shows this), on the phone, Caylee got in the pool and drowned. KC panicked. Tried to call her parents no on answered. She then thought I can't tell them I've allowed this to happen. I'm going to wrap her in the laundry bag and hide her in my truck. I'll go to to Tony's. I'll think of an explanation later. The duct tape could have been applied after the drowning as maybe water was flowing out the orifices and she just wanted to get her bagged up and taken care of. How did Casey appear at the video store? did she look disheveled? I felt that KC could have used the pool scenario and confessed to an accidental drowning and bad cover-up that she would be given 10 years. (Truck should be car where I typed it above. I can't insert).
Good morning Dave and a belated happy birthday!!!
Your post was fascinating! I cannot believe the antics of Casey's lawyers but I am glad that the poor young man's lawyers filed a motion to quash the subpoena. It is not fair for the people who knew Casey to lose all of their rights to privacy simply because Jose Baez can spell their name and put it on a deposition or a subpoena or throw it out to the media.
I do agree with Patti O that 10 years could be a fair sentence if Caylee's death was a pool accident. If Caylee did drown, wouldn't there be some trace of clorinated pool water residue on her clothes or something but not on the duct tape?
Do you think that Casey has ever told anyone the truth about what happened to Caylee?
I love reading your posts and the comments. I was sorry that I was busy most of the day yesterday and couldn't read everything. I really missed being able to check your blog out as often as I usually do.
Thank you for the birthday wishes, Amber, and for the compliment on the post. I can understand the defense wanting cell phone records up to a certain extent, but why up until the present time? Lazzaro was cleared by the police. This goes far beyond the "if you didn't do anything wrong, you've got nothing to hide" claim. No, it is not the defense's right to know what he has done since walking away from that mistake of a woman. What could they possibly be after? It reeks of smearing and that's not fair. Tony did nothing that warrants this sort of treatment. Although I no longer take it personally, I am very much aware of what this defense will do to people in order to save their client, and I don't like it.
Thanks for coming by to read. Do it at your leisure. As far as I know, I'm not going anywhere any time soon.
Hi Peggy, sorry I didn't get a chance to write you back yesturday. I agree, her OLD friends as well as the last batch dropped her like a hot potatoe! I think they all came to the conclusion that she was a liar, even before July 15th, unfortunately Tony was the last to find out.
I think the Defense is going to try and say Casey left Caylee with someone she knew who was supposed to give her back when she was able to get her life together. It is the only defense I can imagine to explain her actions after she murdered Caylee. I think they nixed the kidnapping defense after the photos of Casey partying was revealed. In the end I think she'll get LWOP. George and Cindy will split & Cindy will continue to send Casey letters that will go unanswered.
I hope everyone has a great day! It's beautiful in NH!
Pattie O, I wish I could think that Caylee died accidentally, but I honestly do not think she did. Casey is narcissistic, manipulative and a pathological liar and has been for years. If it had been an accident then there would not have been a need for the duct tape, Caylee was dead already. If it had been an accident, then there would have been no need for the vile of chloroform. There is so much evidence that Casey killed Caylee but nothing to say that it was an accident.
Happy Belated Birthday Dave, I hope you had a great day. It seems difficult to believe the defense wants Tony Lazzaro's current phone records. Thanks, for a great explanation of the legal terms. As always it is evident how knowledgeable you are about this case.
Thank you, Rob. Yes, it was a great day and I hope I have many more. For the life of me, I can't figure out what Lazzaro's current phone records have to do with the past. What is the defense thinking? He's still plotting a cover up?
The only reason I can think of that the defense would want Lazarro's records is that one letter everyone discounted that says Caylee was taken because Casey stole drugs from a dealer. It was just so ludicrous but I have an idea they are looking into that theory since the TES search and all the other debris on the bus wheels didnt' pan out. It's onward and downward.
Patti I thought something similar about Caylee's death as an accident that got covered up and taken to unrealistic lengths by Casey, also because of that flurry of phone calls. Something happened that day to make her frantic that's for sure. My thought was that she was probably leaving Caylee asleep in the trunk of the car while she was on her nights out and forgot her one night til she got up the next afternoon. Then I thought Caylee was tired after her visit from grandpa and when Casey put her into the trunk she created such a hissy fit that in anger Casey taped her up and left her to smother. No one knows but Casey and because she's such a spoiled brat she'll probably spend the rest of her life in prison when just being truthful could have gotten her a much lighter sentence.
And Dave? If you're celebrating your 29th birthday 29 years later just wait til you celebrate your 31st 31 years later! lol. Been waiting her for early SS... but what with SS being SS there's bound to be problems. Every decade just got better for me.
Forgot to log in for that last post.. laughing my butt off here. One thing that goes with getting older is a malady called CRS. (can't remember sh**)
This could be why Cindy Anthony decided to call the media about giving away a pair of Caylee's shoes. There is going to be a document dump soon according to wftv.
WHAT'S NEXT IN THE CASE?
On Monday, there's a status hearing in the case, but Casey is not required to be there.
WFTV is also waiting on more discovery to be released. The documents should include phone records from witnesses and recordings of phone calls made by one of Casey's jail pen pals, Robyn Adams.
What is Next In Casey Case
I think they are grasping at straws with Tony's phone calls ... I believe if they found a call to or from a girl a year ago who has subsequently died, they would blame her for taking Caylee and killing her. Dead people can't defend themselves and this defense I do believe would stoop that low. They will incriminate ANYONE at this point. It's really sad.
I feel we have the best legal system in the world and it's really unfortunate that people from other countries are following this case, and believe this is the norm of intelligence in our defense attorney's.
Steeplechase Girl, I think this defense will stoop that low. They will throw anyone under the bus that they can to try and get Casey free. I really feel for those TES searchers and Tony.
Hey MJ, I know a few people the Defense can throw under that bus. Perhaps we should call Biaz and throw him a few names ;)
LOL Peggy, I know a couple of names I would like to give Biaz too!
Steeplechase Girl~~I got a chuckle out of your comment upthread. I am in another country following this case. Trust me when I say, I am not letting Jose Baez set the standards for intelligent lawyers in the state of Florida or the entire USA. LOL God help you all if he is the best you have. ha ha ha
We don't have the death penalty here in Canada and I think we are too lenient in the penalties handed down for murder one etc. I will give our RCMP credit, as well as law enforcement. As far as attornies go, there are the good and bad, as with all professions regardless of the country they are in.
Ahhh MaryJo I think you just hit on why Baez filed the order to stop releasing information. More is about to be released. It's like plugging up a dam once it's already broken.
As far as Baez's competance goes, I'll just say if you're sent to jail don't ask another inmate to recommend a lawyer to you. THAT'S why they're in there to begin with.. their lawyer lost the case! I'd love to see Baez's win/loss record for cases. Yes, he's just learning the dp business but he's a definite irritant. He reminds me of a spoiled little boy for the most part. Everyone knows that little kid.. the smug one who thinks he can get anything and doesn't take no for an answer.
I know that they said the trunk tested positive for chloroform but I just can not see Casey having the smarts to manufacture chloroform. This part of the puzzle has always left me wondering how or where she could have gotten it. Do you think Cindy would have had access to chloroform in her nursing job?
Cindy didn't donate Caylee's shoes.
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/tag/casey-anthony/
Caylee Anthony: George and Cindy Anthony donate shoes, but not Caylee’s
Caylee.
Caylee Anthony
George and Cindy Anthony stopped by a shoe drive today and made a donation – but not the one that made headlines earlier this week.
“According to the director of this nonprofit, the Anthonys dropped off six pairs of shoes and a bag socks,” WESH-Ch. 2’s Jeff Lennox reported tonight. “At first it was believed those shoes were Caylee Anthony’s, but the director actually says these shoes were brand new.”
Cindy Anthony had said, via an e-mail to WKMG-Ch. 6, that she would give the charity some of her dead granddaughter’s shoes.
The charity, Children of Love Foundation, is sending all the shoes collected today to 22 orphans in Honduras.
WKMG’s Louis Bolden reported that the charity didn’t want the Anthonys volunteering at the event. “They hope the Anthonys’ last-minute involvement won’t hurt future donations,” Bolden said.
WKMG and WESH offered footage of the Anthonys arriving at the shoe drive and talking to others.
WESH also reminded viewers there will be a status hearing Monday in the case against Casey Anthony, the daughter of George and Cindy Anthony. She is charged with first-degree murder in the death of her daughter, Caylee. Anthony is not expected at the hearing.
Snoopy - LOL I wasn't actually thinking Canada, I had more of the European and Asian Countries in mind. Unfortunatly there are people that don't follow/know the United States legal system, they only follow high profile cases. This is a piss-poor defense team representing our Country. I totally agree, there is good and bad in every profession.
Another beautiful day!
I hope everyone enjoys it!
Hi Everyone! Personally, I think Baez is teaching students how to file multiple motions to get everyone frustrated and ticked off at him. Why? ATTENTION>not noticable. It is very important for Baez's position to be recognized, unlike Chaney who will draw the curtains and be presented on stage under multiple spotlights during the trial. Baez, in my opinion, is sending Judge Perry a message...he doesn't appreciate the responses his client has had from the multitude of other motions, DENIED. I think he is fishing for a negative response along with the DENIED with prejudice. He wants Judge Perry to make a mistake. And...he wants Judge Perry to change the history books when it comes to jurisdiction issues...with Baez's name attached of course. He wants everything that he hasn't gotten thus far.
I have to agree with conniefl, Baez does sound and act like the spoiled brat who lived next door. Hmmm..sounds a lot like his client's personality in many ways.
And Snoopy...you are so right when it comes to our (Canadian) lenient ways. It is sad these days the way our justice system has supported and held the hands of some of our heinous criminals. Our juvenile justice system (in Ontario at least) has allowed our youngest criminals too many chances and shown them how forgiving our law abiding citizens are. Working in the field for many years, I can honestly tell you that our system actually promotes crime. They shake their heads at the adult criminals, lock them up w/o very little support and pretend they can't help. With the juveniles they give them too many chances and baby them in hopes of changing behaviors. There is no "tough love" anymore. The system has taken away the authority and rights of parenting. Parents can not discipline the child w/o fear of reprisal from the courts. The children these days are raised w/o guidance/discipline and we have allowed the system to breed a whole new type of criminal. I've said this before and will say it again, if these are the children that are going to be representing our Country in the future, I am glad that I will no longer be here before that happens. Maybe Baez is doing as he has done all his life...keep bugging til he gets a "yes" because we are tired of hearing from him.
Patti O. Cindy worked in a Home Care office for a company called Gentiva. She wouldn't have had access to Chloroform. I am not sure if the hospitals even use that anymore.
Hi PattiO, I agree Casey isn't the sharpest knife in the draw, but I'm sure she could follow directions. If you just Google Chloroform, different ways of producing it comes up. The following is one recipe ...
Materials:
- Bottle of Bleach.
- Bottle of pure acetone (not nail-polish remover, you can pick up acetone at hardware stores)
- Big bag of party-ice. You really do need a lot of ice.
- Glassware
, so you can see how much of the solution has turned to chloroform. You cannot see well through many other materials, plastic etc.
Method:
1. Pour bleach in glass container. Almost all the way up. Maybe use half a litre or so, but it can work in smaller sizes, its just less effective.
2. Add ice to the bleach, to cool it down to a temperature significantly cooler than room temperature. Leave it to cool for a bit.
3. Add one part Acetone for every 50 parts Bleach. Pour acetone in, replenish the ice if necessary. With time the reaction should cloud up and increase in heat.
4. Leave it for 20 minutes, just to make sure that the reaction is fully completed. Keep a close eye on it though, it may overheat. Feel the glass occasionally to make sure. Also, allow time for the reaction to settle. Time may vary with the size of reactions made.
5. After settling, there will either be a white powder at the bottom of the glassware, or a clear bubble. Pour off the remaining solution and try to leave the bubble/dust in the glass.
6. Extract pure chloroform with a separation funnel or a similar instrument..
7. If you wish to store chloroform, use a brown glass bottle only to prevent radiation making it turn to phylogeny quicker. Also, make sure the bottle is filled all the way up, because chloroform reacts with Oxygen. You can only store the chloroform for a week or so however, because it will eventually decompose.
Yeah. Now that you know this information, don't use it.
Thank you for the instructions Steeplechase Girl but I still think it sounds like a dangerous process and can't see Casey going to all that effort or risking something going awry in the process that might somehow harm her.
I really can't see Casey whipping up a batch of chloroform in a hurry. She may have planned to make some back when she was doing her search. I thought someone said that George could possibly have done those searches. I could be mistaken. I thought Blink had something about that.
I would be more prone to think Cindy may have used some cleaning product that contained chloroform when she cleaned the trunk of the car. Also, during the natural process of decomposition, traces of chloroform are present. The body farm did say that there were higher than normal traces of chloroform present in their findings. They also said that Caylee would have had to ingest chloroform over a period of time for the findings to be that high and be present as the body decomposed. Maybe Casey did use chloroform to put the child asleep days or months prior to the murder.
Many mysteries surround this whole case and I doubt if we will ever know what really took place.
ScGirl ~ The problem with manufacturing chloroform in a non-laboratory setting is; it is extremely volatile and unless the "cook" is careful they are likely to be a victim of it's powerful sedation effect them self. I just don't see KC as being the careful type, at all.
Chloroform can be purchased on line for under $50.00, all you need is a credit card and agree not to misuse it!! It is a chemical found in most dry-cleaning solutions, it is possible that it was a remnant of the cleaning the car received before LE was called!
When used as a anesthetic, a very small amount is dosed and has to be re-administered every few minutes because it evaporates. It would not function well as an overnight sedative - unless the person dosing it out was standing by to continually reapply it - if used in too concentrate of an application it will depress the central nervous system causing respiratory failure. Chloroform has not been used in a hospital setting (for anesthesia) for years before CA went to nursing school - it has been illegal to possess since the 1970's.
Why would someone not call 911 in an accidental death? Because the death was caused by an illegal act - If KC attempted to dose Caylee and was not knowledgeable in the correct method or dose, causing her death - I can see her trying to hide her actions by making up a kidnapping, but KC having her temper-tantrum in the jail video, shows us how little self control she has and this seems more likely to me to be the COD - Caylee wanted her Cee-Cee, Caylee had a potty training accident, KC was tired of Cindy telling her she is a bad mother... It is unfortunately all to easy to kill little children.
Something that has always bothered me is the way Caylee looked in the Father's Day video, the circles under her eyes and just in general not looking like the child in most of the other video's - She and KC had been gone for a week - how CA missed the chance to save Caylee from what was obviously a bad situation haunts me.
I have never seen KC's "weapons" searches as a means to do away with Caylee. I think KC wanted to be out from George and Cindy's rules and she wanted the house all for herself (and Amy) or whoever else she could rent a room to. Whether Caylee's death was planned, an accident due to an illegal act or an accident due to KC being a spiteful b!tch - I don't think we will ever know, but I think it is possible Caylee's death and KC's subsequent vacation, may have saved GA & CA's lives.
LCoastMom~~I have always wondered if Casey had a couple heart shaped stickers in reserve for Cindy and George.
I really don't know if she used chloroform on Caylee or not, but I do believe she is a Sociopath who doesn't love or care for anyone besides herself. Can I see her trying to make it to knock her daughter out so she doesn't have to deal with her? YES. I believe she was to stupid to worry about the consequences of making the drug, she only saw the end result ... Caylee could be put to sleep. I have always wondered what she did with Caylee when she slept over Ricardos, Caylee was with them when he fell asleep and she was gone when he woke up, Casey told him she brought her home and then came back to his house, I doubt that. I don't think she used chloroform when she killed Caylee, I also think it was an act of rage. Unfortunately I agree, we will never truly know exactly what Casey did to Caylee, but I have a strong feeling, however bad it was, she can justify it in her mind.